Episode 67 Transcript
Heather (00:03.539)
Welcome to the show, Kathy. I'm really excited to have you here and have a great chat with you. How is everything going in your world?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (00:10.666)
My world is incredible. But firstly, thank you so much Heather for having me along today It is an absolute pleasure to be here and share my experience and the things that I've been doing with my clients
Heather (00:21.599)
Excellent. And you know, I, I definitely handpicked guests based on just how you're wired and what you do in the world. And there was something I just have to point out on your website that really struck me when I was looking at you as a guest and there's a quote and it says, change the world, get well paid for it, and be monk state happy doing it, which I absolutely loved. Remember that quote?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (00:46.078)
I do remember that quote and I debated at length with myself around what to, how to properly describe or articulate the feeling that I want my clients to have and monk state happy, you know, really zen and just loving, loving what they do because stresses around it have been eradicated and managed. It's really important to me.
Heather (01:07.839)
Exactly. Good. Okay. So we're going to start with some really great tips and then we'll move into a little bit more about you and what you do with your clients. So I'd like to start with a few tips that you have when you are going through, and we'll talk about you with this one. So when your business is going through times of growth, let's say you get like a loads of clients on all of a sudden and you have a lot of going, a lot of things going on in your life and business. How do you personally maintain that sort of monk state of happiness?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (01:36.462)
Yeah, it's such a great question. So before I answer it, maybe it's worth sharing with your listeners that in 2020, so mid global pandemic, when all of us were locked down, I was actually diagnosed with stage three cervical cancer. And so it meant that I had to stop working in my business altogether. And because of that, I really got to understand the value of my time and what I should and shouldn't get worried about. So now when it comes to.
having a business that's scaling and doing more things and working with more people. I do that with the lens of Health First. I do that with the lens of making sure my keystone habits like sleep, like hydration, like time with my family are protected first and foremost. And when I have those things in locked in foundation, I find that I'm able to take on more and more and more because I've got capacity that I wouldn't have.
should something else be awry, like a cornerstone or keystone habit.
Heather (02:40.963)
So how do you do that? Do you have rituals or blocked out time in your calendar? How do you look after yourself in those ways?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (02:47.85)
Yeah, absolutely. So I have a no list. So here are the things that I don't do and I'm really proud of them. So I don't, for example, and it's a little bit controversial, I don't attend my son's soccer games on a Saturday. That's because that's just not something that I need to do. Now, most people probably think, oh, that's a little bit strange. But for me, that allows me to do other things for myself and in my business.
I'm not going to reply to every email. No, I'm not going to take on every client. No, I'm not going to say yes to every podcast request or speaking engagements. I'm really clear about my no list. The second thing which I do, and I really encourage my clients to do is to have an appointment or meeting hours for those things and people that you'd love to help, but they could potentially either be tire kickers or
Heather (03:26.721)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (03:42.046)
You're giving a lot of yourself and if you did that too often, you don't have room for other things. So that could look like having a half an hour set aside once a month in the calendar for those lovingly call them those random requests or those students that want to pick your brain, all of the things. And what I say is absolutely I'll help you. And I encourage my clients to absolutely I'll help you. I've got one half an hour slot.
Heather (03:58.231)
Yes.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (04:09.63)
every month or every week or whatever your capacity is, fill in some details, send me a form, let me know what it is we're talking about and what happens. Heather, is it most people don't follow through with it. So ultimately you're spending your time with the people that are happy to jump through two or three of those hurdles in order to really, you know, really spend time with you and I think that works really well. So that's a practical example of something I do.
Heather (04:35.671)
Beautifully said. I've noticed that as well. Yeah, I like people that really want to work with you will pursue you. And there is a point in time when all of our businesses where, you know, whether it's your hiring new team or trying new systems or building systems where there are going to be things slipping through the cracks. So I really like that little distinction that you brought up really smart. So gosh, yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (04:56.414)
Yeah, and you need to slow down to speed up often is the case. You need to slow down and make sure your systems are working before you scale, because otherwise there will just be holes in the bucket and it will become overwhelming.
Heather (05:01.356)
Yeah.
Heather (05:05.836)
Yeah.
Oh, so true. So you have been on one hell of a journey since 2020 by the sounds of it. Are you, how are you now?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (05:17.944)
Health-wise, I'm amazing.
Heather (05:19.875)
Okay, good. I just had to check, because that was kind of a huge bomb to say and amazing that you've gotten through it as well. So gosh, wow. So interesting. I'll ask you another question around that. Have you looked at life differently before 2020 and now that you're healthy and well?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (05:39.754)
Absolutely. So two things. One, I've received and given love in a whole new way. So when you're sick, it's almost like a living wake where people tell you all the wonderful things they think and feel, but you don't actually have to be.
gone for the to experience that. So I think I've let a lot of love in and as a business owner that's allowed me to not only reflect a lot of love out, a lot of gratitude out, but a lot of confidence as well in terms of self-actualization and just feeling really worthy of being on this planet and the contribution that I make. So I've got a lot of love and gratitude at another level that
Heather (06:23.573)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (06:27.176)
precious and protective of my time these days than what I ever have before.
Heather (06:29.779)
Yeah, makes sense. So I want to talk about your journey as a business woman, and you've worked with some pretty impressive corporate names. So Phyllis, where did you come from? Well, who was Cathy before she is now with the thought, the thought alchemist.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (06:46.402)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. So if we'd met back, oh goodness, in 2003 I would have just graduated with my communications marketing PR with a sub centralisation of social psychology under my belt and I jumped into the Sydney CBD and worked for a really small boutique consultancy. There were just a handful of us.
Heather (07:01.921)
Wow.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (07:10.762)
in the office and I think the best thing about that with huge brand names coming at me from an account exec perspective was that there was nowhere to hide and they threw me into the deep end right from the outset. So I think maybe my career rocket shipped much faster because of that very deep experience that I got kind of straight away. And then after doing PR, marketing, agency land for a couple of years, I then moved across to the cancer
Council and was working in their comms and marketing team looking after all sorts of health messages and I was the person that would go along and accept the oversized checks at fundraising events and having all.
Heather (07:41.902)
Yeah.
Heather (07:54.671)
That was you! Oh, I love it!
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (07:57.106)
All sorts of fun. Before I headed to London and worked for the Richemont Group, and those of you that are into your fashion labels will know that the Richemont Group has Cartier, Mont Blanc, Shanghai Tang as part of their house of brands. And then when I came back, I started working in Sydney and North Sydney for Zurich, which is an insurance company. And then from there I spent more than 10 years working in the financial services sector before
agency land and working with those brands like HP, Mad Max, Q-rash, a whole host of them. But what I realized was that I could make great money and apply all of my skills to any type of business. It's actually those fundamental marketing and strategy and business skill sets that apply across any type of business, any size of business. And what I really wanted to
an impact for individuals rather than large organisations which led me to the work I do today.
Heather (08:59.464)
Love it.
Heather (09:03.671)
How long have you been doing the thought alchemist?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (09:06.478)
It's probably close to five years now.
Heather (09:09.743)
Cool. Okay. So now I want to know more about that. So what, cause you have an amazing website, like I said before, your quote and all the beautiful messaging on your site. So I get a definite vibe of who you are, but how would you describe what you do?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (09:24.13)
So I describe my purpose as to bring out the gold in ideas and people. So too often, particularly as women, we undervalue our expertise. We undervalue what we know and the messages that we're able to share with the world. So I work almost exclusively with what I describe as female thought leaders. So these are women who have PhDs under their belt or they've got 20, 30 years of experience
field or they've had something happen in their life whereby there's a learning and wisdom that...
They just can't help themselves with what they want to share. And what holds them all together, the golden thread, is they've got shiny eyes, and they'll leave this earth before they've done all the amazing things they want to do, as well as wanting to make the world a better place than they found it. So those women also need marketing, business, and strategy support. They also need to know things like how to charge and how to condense a message so that it's really palatable for an audience.
or they need to know who and how to network in a different way or to crack into different markets. And so, almost become like a wing woman or a business bestie, combining the skills of strategy, marketing and sales all into one.
Heather (10:50.851)
Got it. Okay. So, and with your amazing background, because you've done, you've traveled, you've lived overseas, you've worked with so many different types of businesses. What an amazing mentor to have on somebody's team because you like, you know it, you know, inside and out how to grow brands and the comms and all the things that you've done. So, um, I want to now know how you work with somebody. So what like, do you have group packages? Do you do one-on-one? What, what do you do?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (11:18.67)
So my business, like everyone else's, whose scaling business changes over time, but right now let's talk about my current offering and it's a one to one. And the reason I love one to one so very much is because it allows me to go incredibly deep with someone and incredibly personal with someone. So there's no topic off limits. And I think when you're working with women who are expected constantly to stand on a stage and present this beautiful
Heather (11:22.652)
Yeah.
Heather (11:26.168)
Perfect.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (11:47.886)
brand, whatever that brand may be, it's always a beautiful experience. There can be things in the background that aren't quite right, whether that's from a personal perspective or a business perspective or a resourcing or a scale and an overwhelm or a pressure to hustle it. So much going on behind the woman that's standing up there and delivering her content. So for me to be able to work one on one brings so much fulfillment, knowing that I'm making a difference.
day to day in her business. So practically how that works is that it's a combination of what I described as the thinking and the doing. It's the combination of the strategy and keeping an eye with her on what needs to happen and what's coming up. So I'm thinking product development here when I say that, I'm thinking about business growth, I'm thinking about stages she wants to speak on. So having a really clear understanding.
of what she needs to do based on the results she's looking to achieve. But then also joining her in the trenches, hand in hand combat, whereby I'm doing the keystrokes. So that could look like, for example, talking about stages one day and which ones she's going to appear on and helping her with the video script, literally writing that for her before she jumps up on stage. So it's a real combo of the thinking and the doing. And it's the...
combination of the two which keeps me really fulfilled and no two people are the same as you know like in business everyone's at a different stage.
Heather (13:21.727)
I love it. I love hearing about just people in general and different business models and what you've chosen to do. And, um, and I like that you're, you're really fulfilled working in that one-on-one space as well, because I feel like, I mean, now more than ever, people need connection. They need their hands held. They need to feel loved and valued. And there's so many people saying, do the one too many and just pre-record yourself and stick it out there. And so I'm, I'm loving hearing that you like this one-on-one touch point.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (13:50.754)
I completely do and it's because, you know, there is so much value I think you can get from having a business bestie. Someone who you can call at any time and say, I'm stuck and you've got someone that's not really thinking about, you know, hours on the clock or group program pushing someone in but it's just there to actually really love and support you. That's probably the thing I do that brings me great joy.
Heather (14:00.268)
Yeah.
Heather (14:14.976)
So good.
Heather (14:19.435)
Love it. Are you happy to talk about a case study, somebody that you've helped recently? So I love before and afters because it helps me to see your gift and what you can do for others too. So let's do a before and after. I'm happy for you to shout out her name or her business if you want, or keep it anonymous, totally up to you. But talk me through somebody you've helped recently.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (14:22.55)
Yeah? Yeah!
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (14:37.426)
Okay, I will keep it anonymous just because I don't yet have permission to talk through it. So, discretion is always the key. But I'll talk about numbers and I'll talk about business finance and results because I think your listeners will be really interested if they're growing their own businesses in this case study. So, when I was working with a client initially, she had lots of, as I said, my clients are shiny eyes. They've got lots and lots and lots of things they want to do. And we were talking about the full spectrum.
Heather (14:41.736)
No, all good.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (15:07.98)
of support that could be implemented in her business and everything from re-looking at her brand to doubling down on social media to putting more leads in the top of her funnel and we looked at all of these things but in actuality although it was a little less shiny and perhaps a little boring in comparison the one area that I identified in her business that could make the most
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (15:37.34)
people made inquiries for her to speak to them and their audiences. So imagine that the lead has come in, it's hit her inbox. Now what we identified was that she was winning maybe one every four, one every five, so 50% of those people that came in. And she couldn't really articulate to me why that was, what she was doing as a consistent experience or an inconsistent experience,
Heather (16:02.349)
Hmm.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (16:07.12)
was it that made only half of them go forward? And so by unpacking that and then redesigning her sales process and putting her in control of her own sales process, and having conversations about her pricing, her value, the way that she needs to send or withhold documentation, being, having agency over the people that she wants to work for and with, right?
being confident and in control and then making practical adjustments like the things that are written and all of that sort of stuff but in totality she we updated that and we've implemented that and she now her conversion rate has gone up between 95 and 100 percent.
Heather (16:39.701)
Yeah.
Heather (16:54.581)
Whoa, that's massive. That's almost unheard of.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (16:56.97)
Right? It's unheard of. So now she knows that if she's sending someone a proposal, that she's going to win that work.
And, you know, like it's often the case of you can't ever tell with a client where the greatest opportunities are going to lie until you really get under the hood. But even working and optimizing that can make, you know, it makes a massive difference, particularly when you know that female speakers on stages charge between, you know, $7,500 to $15,000 per keynote once you're at that very professional level. So doubling that per month.
Heather (17:06.392)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (17:36.545)
for her makes a massive difference to her overall income.
Heather (17:41.419)
Or even more than doubling because you were saying one in four in most cases. I mean, what, like seriously, what a life-changing thing that you have offered in that moment. I mean, wow. So yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (17:53.506)
It just means that she can go on and have more impact. So the more stages that she stands on and the more people that hear her message, the more that the audience and therefore the world gets to be happier and more alive and implement all of the things she does. So I'd rather do that for a handful of much-loved clients than to not have the same impact but to scratch the surface with lots more people.
Heather (17:57.012)
Yeah.
Heather (18:21.891)
Makes a lot of sense because that is interesting when you were saying that her on stage more stages, I felt that ripple effect when you're talking about that as well. It's, um, I mean, just those little tweaks, just uncovering the fact that she needed that process. And then the little tweaks that you helped to get that to happen. She has this consistent machine now and the people, I mean, like you said, double tripling the people she's in front of what if there's like just one person.
that the message saves her life or helps her have a better life. Just one, just that made it all worth it. So incredible.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (18:54.682)
Yeah, I love that. So something that's really common amongst almost every client I've ever had, every business type, every business owner, is that often they ask for things the wrong way around. And if you give me a couple of minutes to explain it. So we'll talk about a podcast for a second. So often people would come to me and say, Kathy, I'm really excited. I want to do a podcast. I've got to start a podcast. We're like, OK. So I'm just nodding at this point, saying, all right.
Heather (19:08.927)
Oh, please. Yeah, I'd love to know more.
Heather (19:14.368)
Yeah.
Heather (19:23.407)
Hehehehe
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (19:24.458)
And then they go, OK, so I've got a podcast and I've got the name. Now, what am I going to put on it? Message, why? So who am I going to interview? What's that? What's it going to be about? And they want to have that conversation around the topics or the guests that they want to have. And then the next question they'll want to ask me, right, once they've talked about this brief is then, yeah, and I want to reach this audience. I want to get to all these women or I want a million downloads, etc. And then they go. And when I do that, I might be more credible in the space.
right? But for me, that's actually the wrong way around. So if we start with results first, so what are you trying to achieve? I want to make a difference to 100 women who are now more productive than they've ever been. I want to make a difference to 10 families who are experiencing anxiety. I want to make a difference to whatever it happens to be. If we start with the intention or the result, then we can say, well, in order to do that,
Heather (19:54.763)
Interesting. Yeah.
Heather (19:59.951)
Mm-hmm.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (20:24.29)
how many, how few, how many, how few people do we need to impact? Because maybe what, in the case of my client, maybe it's a case of we just need to turn two inquiries into ten inquiries or maybe it's taking, you know, three coffee shops having stocking a coffee to ten coffee shops and then once you've reached that number, maybe that's enough, right? So we need to ask that question around, if you like, audience and the result first and then who we're talking to.
Heather (20:29.645)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (20:52.77)
how many we need of those people. Next, what follows is around message. So what do I need to say in order to get those people to make a difference and that or change their behavior? So show up, sign up, say yes, purchase, put it in my cart, whatever it happens to be. What do I need to say to them for them to make that choice or that change? Which is very different to the inverse, which is what do I want to say about myself?
Heather (21:22.051)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (21:22.07)
Right. Because it's never about what you want to say about yourself. It's always what your audience needs to hear. And then lastly, it's about what's the right vehicle, whether that's a product, whether that's a marketing channel, whether that's something else entirely. That's then the last decision that's made. So often people come in with, you know, the podcast in mind or the event in mind or the webinar in mind or whatever happens to be. It's like, oh, wait.
Is that actually what we need to do to arrive at or deliver this result? And by thinking about the result first, the cascade then becomes really obvious and becomes really connected to the customers you're looking to acquire.
Heather (22:07.095)
I want to validate that you were saying that as well, because that just got me thinking of someone that a friend of mine who did some advice around a podcast he wanted, and he's in the recruitment sector. And basically, yeah, I want a podcast to look credible and get out there in front of a lot of people where ultimately he just wanted some referral partners. So he had a podcast, got only, I don't know, maybe 200 listeners every month. But the podcast is what grew his business. Because it...
brought him the referral partners and the people that also became his clients. So that small distinction, what you just said, flipping it around is so powerful and I've seen it time and time again. And I love that you brought that up. So thank you for sharing that. So good. So I want to know a few more tips. You said earlier when you work with somebody, you like to look under the hood and everyone's different and you look for these little leverage.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (22:49.282)
Yeah, absolutely.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (22:55.478)
Yeah.
Heather (23:05.463)
buttons to push, right? Based on what's going on for them. How do you do that? Because to me it sounds like a bit of a gift that you have. So when you are coming across somebody, what do you do? Like what's the first step? What do you look at? Do you have a checklist? Is there a certain formula that you use to find what's gonna move the needle for them?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (23:22.194)
Yeah, it's about first and foremost getting to understand them and what a really great life looks like in all areas. So what does a great life look like as it pertains to your health and under the umbrella of health, it's physical health.
Heather (23:29.858)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (23:37.966)
mental health, spiritual health. Like what is, if you don't know what good looks like, right, then you can't possibly, it wouldn't, so for some, some people, putting them on stage every single week, every single month, the entire year, wouldn't be a great, it'd be great, would be great scale, it'd be incredible income. They'd have, you know, 100 bookings or more a year.
Heather (24:01.921)
Yeah.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (24:02.654)
right, which is fabulous income, but it would erode what's happening for them at home, or it would erode for them the research they're doing through their PhDs or academic studies or book that they want to write or something else. So, you know, when it comes to looking under the hood and making choices for that individual, it's about deeply understanding that individual first and foremost, and then saying, well, if this is the result, who are we going to talk to? How many do we need? What do they need to hear from us?
you as part of your packaged up expertise and where do we need to be and we need to be in all of these places and having those you know in a cascading sensible very bite sized and realistic roll out if you like. So that's how I do it.
Heather (24:51.207)
Yeah. So then you look at like the things that then help drive her to what she wants. So you work out what she wants. And you said something interesting too around what does good even look like. I find that a lot of people, especially women, have a great deal of difficulty even defining that. Maybe it's fear of asking for you want or dreaming bigger or whatever it is. But I actually want to dive a little bit into that point too. Do you actually help
people to uncover what good, like good life actually means to them.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (25:24.17)
Yeah, and I think it's both uncovering it, giving them permission, and then dreaming and seeing bigger for them in ways that you can't see yourself. So I like to describe this in many, for many examples, but I like to describe the analogy around you can't read the label when you're inside the jar.
Right. So if a woman's in her business, if a woman's in her head, if a woman's overwhelmed, if a woman thinks she's worth, you know, a particular amount, she's inside that jar. And so I'm really great at doing is helping her to see from the outside and helping her put on that label, which is a confidence label or a product label or a here's your worth label or, you know, here's the life. You know, I can. Yeah, you I can bottle it up for them and make it far more
to reach their success by really understanding what needs to go on that label to make them pick up worthy.
Heather (26:20.667)
You are you seriously help somebody from point A to point B, like more so than so many people I've spoken to from belief structures and knowing what's possible for her to actually the vehicle to create that with her and help her and look at the little nuances along the road, like the example you gave with conversion and fixing that. I mean, to have that expertise in all those facets is rare. So well done for finding it and living in it and bringing it to the world.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (26:49.674)
I don't know if this is too cheeky for your listeners, but I even remember having a conversation with a client who was talking about her physical needs and how that was at odds when she was travelling away from her partner. So we even had a discussion around which was the right vibrator to pack in her bags so that she could feel good before she went on stage. Like it's that level of, oops sorry I've gone blurry, it was that level.
Heather (27:07.607)
Excellent.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (27:14.142)
of making sure someone's really looked after in business. That matters to me.
Heather (27:20.223)
Like you said, no topic is can be undiscussed. So I love that. That's perfect. Perfect way to sort of end our conversation. So look, if somebody wants to work with you, Cathy, who let's define who you like to work with first. And then how does she come and find you and learn more about you?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (27:39.682)
So the way that she would find me would be jumping either on my LinkedIn, my Instagram or my website. My website is thoughtalchemistswithaplural.com. My LinkedIn is my name, so it's Cathy Rhodes, R-H-O-D-E-S.
And I'm the underscore thought underscore alchemist on Instagram. And the type of woman that would want to reach out to me is someone that wants to earn all or the majority of her income through her ideas. So that might be the modality of speaking, podcasting, writing a book, getting research grants. And she wants to really make a difference in this world. So she wants lives to be happier. She wants to.
bring about environmental action. She wants to use science in new ways. So her area of expertise can be varied and wide, but she wants to be able to share her message with more and more people and get well paid for it.
Heather (28:36.819)
Ladies, I know you're listening. I know, because I know some of you in my audience and I know that's you and you're probably feeling that this could be the little sign that you're waiting for. So if it is, go reach out to Cathy for sure. We have all the links in our show notes. And as we wrap up, are there any last thoughts that you'd like to share with the listeners, Cathy?
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (28:58.094)
I would love to share that you absolutely have permission, as the podcast is all about, to be anti-hustle. Because slow success, meaningful success, and success which is in close proximity.
to your personal and core values is the very, very best kind. That would be, have permission to really and truly define what business growth and hustle looks like to you and anti-hustle all the way.
Heather (29:28.663)
Yay, amen to that. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for being here and sharing some beautiful stories and also a vulnerable story that you've gone through in your past as well. It's been a lovely conversation. So thank you for being here.
Kathy Rhodes - The Thought Alchemist (29:41.346)
Thanks so much, Heather.
