Episode 35 Transcript
Heather:
Hey guys, welcome. This is Justin. Now I've been talking about a supplement that I've been taking for a while called Lion's mane. This is the dude that makes it. His company makes it you guys. So I'm so excited that he's on. There's multiple reasons why I brought him on. Not only talk about his business, his backstory, but also his thoughts on stress because he's really good at email marketing and education in the business. And I got an email that prompted me to reach out to him. So, hey Justin, welcome.
Justin:
Hey Heather, thanks for having me on.
Heather:
So good to have you. I want to start with your backstory because we were just bantering
Justin:
Yep.
Heather:
a bit about your business. So
Justin:
Yes.
Heather:
talk to me a bit about your business and where it all started and the previous name as well.
Justin:
Yeah, so I from when I was. straight out of high school, I wanted to travel. And so I traveled all over the world and I spent a lot of time in India specifically. And when I was in India, I found spirulina and I'd never heard of it before. It was this weird kind of algae that people ate as they had them like chips back then. And so you'd eat these like spirulina chips. They were amazing. It sounds
Heather:
Oh
Justin:
awful, but they were actually amazing. And I was vegetarian at the time and I was really, and I really felt really good when I started eating the spirulina kind of made this connection between like, oh, the foods we eat have a direct impact on our health and our wellbeing. And it seems
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
like such an obvious kind of correlation now, but even like, you know, my cousin studied, um, my cousin's a doctor and he said in men in, in like when they were studying medicine, they do like, you know, three hours of nutrition or something like they're still like a big part of society. It doesn't really link food and nutrition with health and wellbeing, but
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
I'd seen that connection from there and I'd been thinking about for a long time and I saw, and I thought if people can like taking some of these strange foods like spirulina chips, then that's going to be something that people are going to want to do because like, you know, Western medicine is incredible and has some really good advantages and has some things that it does really well, but there's often side effects and complications that come from different Western medicines. Whereas with these super foods, they're just foods. Like the lion's mane, it's just a mushroom. It's not so different to going and buying portobello mushrooms down at the supermarket. This is a different type of mushroom that happens to have certain compounds in it that can be really good for brain health and for concentration and productivity and all that kind of thing. I really, I had a different business then selling these leather bags online. And,
Heather:
Love
Justin:
um,
Heather:
it.
Justin:
I've still got that, I've still got that business actually, but it just kind of, it just kind of sits on the side. It's called happy cow. And we just do like leather pocket bags and stuff and bum bags and that kind of thing.
Heather:
Okay,
Justin:
Um,
Heather:
cool.
Justin:
and even if, even before Joe Rogan made them cool, I was doing that, um, but, um, we, and spit back even back then. So that business, when I started that business, I loved, I used to do festivals and like sell these bags and sell them. Most of the customers have always been in the U S. But it was, there was never the demand for them. Like it was like, I kind of had to create an industry because no one, there was only, the only bum bags you could get were from the $2 shop. And we were selling them for $150 because they're like
Heather:
Right.
Justin:
a high-end premium leather, you know, hand stitched, all this kind of thing. And there wasn't really a market for it. And so I'd always had in the back of my mind, it'd be great to start a business where you don't have to do the hard sell. Because I was going into fashion stores and trying to sell these bags 99 of the store, the doors you'd knock on, they'd go and they'd just sit and the other 1% and they'd say the boss isn't here, you know? And
Heather:
Right,
Justin:
so
Heather:
of
Justin:
like
Heather:
course.
Justin:
it was,
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
it was such a hard slog and I'd never, I'd always grown up doing the hard sell thing. You know, I'd grown up selling products door to door and doing tele sales and all that kind of stuff from when I was about 16 to 22 or something, I was doing all that stuff and I,
Heather:
Wow.
Justin:
I hated it, you know? And I don't know if anyone
Heather:
Yeah, it's a hard
Justin:
re
Heather:
slog.
Justin:
it's so hard. And you also like like you feel like you have to sell your soul because it's all, all
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
that matters is making a sale. And so you're encouraged in those environments, whether it's done indirectly or directly, but you're encouraged to kind of like bend the truth a little bit and, you know, get people talking and make, build a rapport and all that kind of thing. But the only purpose was just to sell.
Heather:
Mm.
Justin:
And so I got some really good skills from that in terms of sales, but also when I didn't want to do and what I didn't want to do was have to do the hard sell. I'm just not interested.
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
I don't think that's, I don't think that's a good business. That's not a, that's not the way I want to live my life is trying to pressure people into buying stuff. And so then when, just before I turned 30, I thought, I kept thinking about these super foods and stuff. And there was only two sellers maybe in Australia about 10 years ago, there's only about two sellers online. And I thought we can come in and do this. And when I looked at how much I could buy them for the super foods, to Peru and went direct to India and you know, all these different places where they come from. I realized that there was huge margins in them compared like what everyone else was selling for. They were making, they were ripping people off massively. And so I thought I could come in and be the lower end of the market and kind of get the mass market and make it affordable for everyone. So I started the business and I called
Heather:
Right.
Justin:
it Cheap Superfoods. And
Heather:
Yep.
Justin:
through
Heather:
Good name.
Justin:
it, and at the time it made a lot of sense. And then I actually, I had a business partner back then. And one day we were sitting at our desks and I turned to, and we were selling the highest quality stuff because I don't want to sell something that I don't want to take. And I don't want to take crappy quality stuff that's imported from questionable sources, that's got chemicals in it, that's got at least different fillers. I just want to take the best quality stuff. So if I'm going to take the best quality stuff, that's the stuff I want to sell. Cause I'm not going to sell and put my name on something that I wouldn't take myself or I wouldn't give to my family. And...
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
And so we were selling the highest quality, certified organic, no fillers, no, you know, like the best quality stuff we could find, but it was called cheap superfoods and there was a real kind of like disconnect there between trying to being price focused, but also being quality focused. And so I turned to him one day when I was sitting at a desk and I went I went, do you like the name cheap superfoods? He goes, he goes, nah, I hate it. And I go, I'm embarrassed to tell people the name of the business. And that
Heather:
Oh my
Justin:
night,
Heather:
god.
Justin:
that night we went across all of our marketing, the website, everything, and we changed the word cheap to forest and started doing like protecting endangered rainforests as part of our, as part of our offering and all that kind of thing.
Heather:
So smart.
Justin:
And overnight, everything changed. And that was a really good lesson in terms of like. You know, like I'd always thought that people care about price because people are always contacting you going, can I get a discount? Why is it so expensive? Can I get cheaper? But then I realized in that moment, people actually don't care about price. They care about value. You know, like
Heather:
Oh,
Justin:
no
Heather:
so
Justin:
one's saying,
Heather:
smart.
Justin:
no one's thinking, no one's thinking a Porsche is overpriced. They're going that, well, that's the value of that level of car. You know, they make six of them a year. This is the, you know, this is all the work that goes into it. It's valued at, you know, the million dollar price tag, whatever it is. And so I realized that like, I shouldn't compete on price because there's always gonna be someone who can eat for less than you can. You know, in my, I grew up in my grandfather's jewelry stores in Sydney Road Brunswick, which is a very popular shopping district in, in Melbourne. And, um, and he used to always say, he used to say that to me, you know, he'd say, there's always someone who can eat for less than you can don't compete on price. Find something else that you can do that you can offer to make you stand out from other people other than the price. Because once you start competing on price, it's a race to the bottom. You know, and, and nobody ends
Heather:
Absolutely
Justin:
up making
Heather:
great.
Justin:
money and, and it's just, it's, and it's not the kind of business I want to run. You know, I want, I want to run a bit. And so we now we're certainly not the cheapest, you know, we might be, I don't know if we're the most expensive either in terms of like the mushrooms and the superfoods industry and that kind of thing, but what we do is we give people confidence that they're getting the highest quality product. And I
Heather:
That's
Justin:
think
Heather:
exactly
Justin:
that's,
Heather:
what you guys do. Yeah.
Justin:
and, and that's, and that's been our focused. Yeah.
Heather:
What
Justin:
Sorry.
Heather:
I can wanted to add to that, no worries, Justin, all good.
Justin:
Yeah.
Heather:
That that's what got me by the way, when I was looking around, it's also that you do really good education. Like there's a lot
Justin:
Mm.
Heather:
of touch points that you do where you there's so much value in the brand, um, that that's what got me. And it's, it's your education still that you send out every single, you know, every single email, you're not just trying to flog a product. You're doing backstory.
Justin:
Yeah.
Heather:
You're doing education. You're going like, Hey, if you have this, this will help. And this is why there's a lot of thought that has gone into your brand.
Justin:
Yeah, and the email marketing stuff, it's... It's again, you know, it was a really important lesson that took me far too long to learn. But you know, I was, I look at, I look at what the big guys are doing and I look at their emails and I see all these fancy colors and all this fancy design and all these buy, this is on sale. This is discounted two for one. And I thought that's what you meant to do. And when I get those emails, I hate them. I delete them straight away, you know? And I wanted to create, I wanted to, I wanted people to look forward to getting my emails. I wanted people to save the emails, to pass them on to other people. to get value from the emails. And a lot of that came from, um, do you know Alex Hormosi on YouTube?
Heather:
Yes, of course, yes.
Justin:
I got obsessed, I got obsessed with him for like three months, like just
Heather:
Hehehe
Justin:
watching everything. Like I think my wife was getting jealous at one point, cause it was just like
Heather:
You
Justin:
constant like Alex Formosy, everything, read all his books, everything. And his whole thing is about, it's, it's again about value. He's like, give away the value. And this ties into the whole thing about not wanting to do a hard sell as well is like, give people all the value, all the information, everything you have to give, and then they will come to you and buy on their own. the call and asking for the sale, you know, is this going to happen on its own? And yeah, so that's our philosophy now with the email marketing and with everything else it's like, you know, and it's, it's kind of funny cause people are contacted, you know, there'll be a random person who'll email and say, you know, if, if you don't do X, I'm not going to buy from you, buy from you. And I'm like, so don't buy, you know, like,
Heather:
Exactly.
Justin:
or I don't like, I don't mind. Like I want people to enjoy the products and I want people to get the most they can out of the product. If it's not for right for someone, that's okay. And I don't apologize for the fact that we're more expensive. You know, there are cheaper options available for people who want a cheaper product. But for those people like myself and you who value having a high quality product,
Heather:
That's it.
Justin:
that's what Furry's Superfood is there for. And I don't need to be, you know, Cole's asked us to supply them last year. And
Heather:
Okay.
Justin:
I said, no. because I didn't want to get into that whole thing of like, you know, if your shipment's half an hour late, they, they send it all back. If, you know, if they put, if they decide to put a sale on, they're going to deduct it from your invoice. I just didn't want to be in that kind of scenario where like, it's just a mass market like. you know, making sense on the dollar, trying to survive and being dependent on one of these large supermarkets. I wanted to be able to do it my way. And it was the same, I don't know if you're about the crowdfunding thing that I was going
Heather:
Oh
Justin:
to
Heather:
yeah,
Justin:
- And so
Heather:
yeah.
Justin:
I spent, I spent literally three months of my life, like prepare. It's a big deal doing the crowdfunding. There's a huge
Heather:
Massive.
Justin:
amount of paperwork and documentation and legal stuff and everything that has to be done. And I did all of it. And then we got to the night before it was meant to launch. And I got this, we got this, I got this, um, A little woman contacted me and she said, I've been a fan for years. I love what you guys do. I don't have much money. I've got a couple of hundred dollars saved up. I want to invest it in you guys when you go live with this crowdfunding thing. And in that moment, that was, of course it was, you know, it was a real honor that someone wanted to do that and they trusted in me that much. But then I went what's going to happen to my values and my integrity when I feel like I have to make money, someone else is dependent on me to make money and someone
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
else is dependent on me for with their life savings. And I wanted to be able to keep it. And I wonder if that's what kind of happens in these big corporations as well, where you see they start doing dodgy things and they start, you know, they're getting trouble for, you know, what's happening with Koyo now with, free and all these kinds of things that happen. Um, like I wonder if there is a point because there's so much pressure on you to provide returns to the shareholders and to be able to every year, you know, grow compared to the last year and all this pressure that can then it makes it too tempting for people to do things that would, they usually wouldn't do and go against their own morals and their own ethics code because they feel compelled to because there's other people who are dependent on them.
Heather:
It's
Justin:
And
Heather:
a really,
Justin:
I never
Heather:
really
Justin:
wanted to do
Heather:
good
Justin:
that.
Heather:
point. Yeah, you know what?
Justin:
Yeah.
Heather:
And over the interviews I've done so far on this show with everyone that's kind of growing their business, they all say the no is more important than the yes.
Justin:
Mmm.
Heather:
And you have just backed that through multiple examples. And that's incredible. Like a huge chain like Kohl's approaches you. And for you to say no, not for me, that's incredibly powerful that you did that and you knew the strength of doing that as well.
Justin:
Yeah. And it's also like, I think, um, like I'm obsessed with e-commerce, you know, and I have been for 20
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
years and it's been, it's been, it's, it's been a big part of my life. And, and I've always thought about like, how the most difficult business to run is the business turning over less than a million dollars, because then you're doing everything yourself. You know, you're the accountant
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
and you're the warehouse staff and you're the customer service and everything. But once it gets past that point, I think it gets a lot easier. You know, once you can start getting, you can afford to start getting other people involved and getting them to specialize in certain areas of business. The business really takes a huge leap forward and it takes the workload off you. And so now I don't have to do. Any of that stuff, I could just focus on growing the business. And so I just have an incredible team around me. And, um, and so they handle all the day to day stuff and I'm just focused on like checking in with them and like the growing of the business and, um, and I like being in that position. And if I got Coles or Woolworths or some of these massive players on her, you know, and they expect that if they call you in the middle of the night, you have to answer the phone, you know, like
Heather:
Mm. No,
Justin:
you,
Heather:
no.
Justin:
you work for, you work for them. And I don't want to
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
do that. And I think. I think there's not enough conversation in our society about how valuable time is. you know, and
Heather:
Oh,
Justin:
how valuable
Heather:
I agree.
Justin:
lifestyle is. And there's a certain point where we could all, where we should all, especially as business owners, if your whole life is just working 16 hours a day and you're not enjoying it, you're better off having a job, you know, because that way at least, or, you know, if there's no path out of that either, you know, if it's been like that forever, then I think in that scenario, I'd rather have a job. And at least that way I get the eight, I work for eight hours, but I get the other eight hours with my kids and with my family I enjoy. And I think our time is the only thing that really matters, you know, and we're all going to be dead soon. And it's just the time that matters and the time with your kids and the time with your family and your loved ones and doing things you enjoy. That's what matters, not the money. And so
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
I think that for business owners, you know, there should really be a, you know, you should be aware that the money doesn't really matter all that much as long as you could pay your bills. you know, everything else on top of that is a bonus. And so especially like I've got a five-year-old now, next year he's going to be at school. And I think that's a different
Heather:
Oh
Justin:
scenario,
Heather:
wow.
Justin:
but while he's at home, I want to be able to spend time with him. And
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
so I'm really focused on like making sure that my life isn't just revolved around work. And I think as a business owner, those were the things I wanted to talk to you about actually, you know, for the first couple of years when I was running for a superfood, I was really focused on sitting at my desk at nine o'clock and I'd sit there till 5 p.m. and end up spending like 90% of the time on Facebook, just like browsing
Heather:
Oh
Justin:
Facebook.
Heather:
my-
Justin:
And I realized
Heather:
down the wormhole.
Justin:
exactly. And I realized then that like, actually it's not about the hours you put in. It's about what you get out from the work that you put in. If the hours don't matter, you know, it's, you're almost better doing, doing less hours, but making those hours more consistent. And so I can, after, you know, 20 years, I'll fine tune that to the point where I can sit down and do an hour and that hour can have a massive. difference to the bottom line and to the customer experience and to whatever other facets of the business that I'm working on without having to slog it out for eight hours, I could just focus a go, well, what's the most important thing that needs to be done? It's going to have the biggest impact and just focus on that. And so again, it comes down to like the time management part of things, you know, and
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
being able to, yeah, work out what's, what do you really need to do and what's just wasting time and what can you give to other people to do? Yeah.
Heather:
I want to ask you a question around stress because
Justin:
Yes.
Heather:
we all go through it. We, you and I talked before the show. It's not something you can ever truly get away from, but I
Justin:
Yeah.
Heather:
did love your email and the stress cycle. What, like, what are your thoughts around stress? Like, is it something that we have to live with? How do we deal with it?
Justin:
I mean, I think the most important thing with stress is being conscious
Heather:
Mmm.
Justin:
of it. I think
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
a lot of the time, and it's become a bit of a joke between me and my wife now, because when she sees me stressed and my, and my eyebrows are furrow and I'm like, you know, she could see I'm stressed and often she'll say to me, what are you stressed about? And I'll think for a second. I go, I don't remember. It was a while ago. I don't actually remember what it was, but that is like, I think that's a real good insight into like how our brains often, often we're not even aware why we are stressed or why we are
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
agitated. And just asking yourself that question of like, what am I stressing about? You know, can have a profound impact in our wellbeing because I know for me, and I think I got it from my dad cause I remember him being stressed a lot, but this idea of like, I should just be stressed. You know, if you're stressed, you work. I don't know if you're a big Seinfeld fan, but there's an episode with George
Heather:
I remember that.
Justin:
where he works out that if he looks stressed and angry, the boss thinks he's being really productive. He didn't like...
Heather:
It's rude.
Justin:
And the boss comes in and says, can you do said he's like, oh, and the boss is like, sorry, sorry. Like, um, and, and that's, that's kind of true in society as well. You know, it's this idea of like, whoever's working themselves hardest, whoever's the most stressed out, well, you know, they're obviously doing good work. And I don't think that's accurate at all.
Heather:
Where
Justin:
And so.
Heather:
one of the taglines I say is stop wearing busyness is a badge of honor.
Justin:
Yeah. Exactly, exactly. Cause it doesn't, it doesn't mean anything. And I often get people, you know, like if I email someone and then they don't come back to the story, I've been so busy. I flew to this country and I had a meeting here and I'm like, I don't mind other emoji yesterday, you know, it's not a big deal. And I think, um, yeah. So I think the main thing that I try and do is to go back and go like, what am I stressing about? What's the actual issue here? And often it's nothing or it's something small or it's something I could just deal with, you know, it's just a matter of like sending an email to someone or calling someone or taking some action and then it kind of goes away. But I think, um. You know, I don't, I think those, I think people who are ambitious and driven, I think that stress is almost like the whip on yourself that keeps you moving. You know, that stress and that agitation, that like not being satisfied, that kind of propels you forward to the next step and the next step and the next step. And you know, and my, my wife will actually say to me, you know, why are you trying to grow the business? You know, like it's big enough already. And I'll say, because There's no... There's no such thing as standing still in the world. You know, everything's always changing, everything's moving. And if you're not moving forward, you're moving backwards. And part of moving forward, it doesn't necessarily mean you're trying to grow your bank account, but a lot of time it could just be trying to make things better for the customer and trying to make the experience better for the customer and trying to make your products better and trying to make the website process more smooth for people and all that kind of thing. That's part of growth is about improving what you're doing. And so I'm always focused on growth. and doing things better. And Alex Omosi had a really good thing about that because he talked about how like people will always try to do new stuff. You know, they're like, they want to, they want to expand and start doing a new category of products. So they want to expand into
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
a new country or they want to, you know, sell on new platforms or whatever it is. But like, actually just if what you're doing now is working, just make that better because when you, when you, if what you're doing is working now, making it better is going to, is very likely going to make But doing something new, you know, you got a one in 10 chance it's even going to work. You know, whereas what if what you're doing is working just improve on that and just make that better. And I thought that was another brilliant nugget from Alex Hormozi about like just
Heather:
really
Justin:
focus
Heather:
good.
Justin:
on making things better that you're doing. That you're already, what's it already working? Just do that better. And so
Heather:
It's
Justin:
that's
Heather:
such
Justin:
how
Heather:
a good
Justin:
we kind
Heather:
one.
Justin:
of it's so and it's so simple and that's part of the email marketing as well, you know, like our email marketing. was working with the traditional way of doing these fancy emails and stuff. But then I went, well. What is it that makes, that we can do better than these, you know, these big kind of vitamin companies or whatever could do when we could, I could talk from my personal experience. I can talk as one human being to another human being. Whereas these big companies aren't gonna do that because they're made up of 5,000 different people. You know, it's not just one voice that's like driving that ship. And so that's why we've changed that direction with email. And it's amazing the response we've gotten. And at the end of the day, like, you know, I just think about myself and I think, get so many emails and they're so annoying. I don't want to be contributing to that. So here's a way that I can make emails more interesting for people and give people value from the emails and people seem to really be loving them, but yeah.
Heather:
You guys
Justin:
Back.
Heather:
all have
Justin:
Sorry.
Heather:
to
Justin:
I
Heather:
go
Justin:
got.
Heather:
buy, you have to go buy his products. I have to interrupt because this is the moment
Justin:
Hahaha
Heather:
for me to say, go buy your products, um, and go get on his email list because every single business owner has something to learn by the emails that Justin sends out. Um, I wanted
Justin:
Ah, that's
Heather:
to
Justin:
very kind.
Heather:
take, yeah, it's true. You've brilliant email marketing. Um, I wanted to
Justin:
Thank
Heather:
ask
Justin:
you.
Heather:
you about leadership because you said that
Justin:
Yes.
Heather:
you no longer, and it's like. like the day to day, you're now managing your team, you're focusing
Justin:
Yep.
Heather:
on these little pieces to make it better and better in all the different areas.
Justin:
Yep.
Heather:
Were you always a good leader or did you have to learn?
Justin:
I don't even know if I'm a good leader now. But, but, um, I think. I think I've... I again, I go back to what I would want if I was working for someone else. And, and I try and implement that with my staff. And what I would want is I wouldn't want someone looking over my shoulder all the time. I would want someone to give me autonomy and power to make decisions in my role. And I'd want to be well compensated for the work I do. And I'd want to work hard and be rewarded, you know, in terms of money, basically for the hard, extra hard work that I put in. staff. But in terms of like, being a good leader, I don't know, like, I don't have a business plan. I never have, I don't have targets or goals or anything like that. It really just comes down to like, how can we do what we're doing better? And that's, that's the focus that I look at in every different aspect of the business. And I spend a lot of time with the staff and I, this, it hasn't always, you know, I've, I've been doing, I've been running my business for 20 years now, and I've had some really interesting stuff come on board that it just didn't work at all. Like we're very different personalities and different values and whatever. And so, you know, those people have obviously gone, but then when I find someone who. I really love working with them and they love working with me and we have similar values. I hold onto them because they're hard to find. And I think a big part of it is like having the right people around you and investing in those people as well. And my grandfather, I used to say to my grand, cause my grandfather would talk about staff turnover and I'd say, you know, what if you, what if you hire these people and you put all this work into trading them and they leave? And he'd say, well, what if you don't trade them and they stay? And I was like,
Heather:
Ha ha.
Justin:
ah, of course you have to invest in people, you know? And that's part of the
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
exchange is like, I'm teaching them about, you know, how I run my business and how things work in this kind of e-commerce, health food space, and they're bringing their own skills to table. And there's this, this trade off. And we're kind of like, I don't, I mean, like at the end of the day, you know, I The buck stops with me and I'm responsible for all the bad stuff that happened, any issues that happen. And I'm responsible for everything, every facet of the business. But I really like to let people call. I try to think of it as we're just a team working together and I'm not there to dictate orders and I'm not there to tell people what to do. And I'm not like, you know, it's my way or the highway. I'm like, we work together and we, we communicate between us to work out what's best for the customer. And so, and so we have, I have this really good communication, a really good dialogue with all of the staff and
Heather:
playing it.
Justin:
I hire everyone myself and you know, and I have a very close relationship with everybody. And I think the leadership part of it is really just about. treating each other like human beings, you know, like just working,
Heather:
What a
Justin:
just
Heather:
concept!
Justin:
working,
Heather:
Yeah!
Justin:
just working together, you know, like that. And I think often you get business owners who have this idea that somehow they're smarter than everyone else. And I think that causes
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
issues. And I don't think I'm smarter than everyone else at all. I think I'm probably more stubborn. And, and, and I've, for some reason I don't like my brain doesn't shut off. So I can put in more hours than what other people can. And I'm, you know, I'd happily work all night if my wife would let me, you know, sometimes I just get in this thing where I'm like enjoying what I'm doing and I'm coming up with all these good ideas and what, you know, revolutionizing the website or, you know, the email marketing, whatever it is. And I want to keep working on that. And so I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. And because I enjoy it over 20 years, it creates this, you know, this great business that the people love that you don't. we're quite far ahead of a lot of the other people that are in this space. And so I don't think it's
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
anything to do with intelligence. It's just luck and perseverance.
Heather:
It's also your passion. You're very passionate and you're quite humble as well. I mean, you built something absolutely massive and I'm loving how you're talking about it in a very different way than probably most of these like big guru types would be like, yeah, I've nailed. I've like crushed this, you know, now you have a really great ground grounded approach and on that, I want to know a bit about your rituals. What are a couple of rituals that you do daily to bring yourself and your family? More joy.
Justin:
Exercise is a big one for me. Uh,
Heather:
Yep.
Justin:
and I think I've only recently just started doing weights, you know, this year I've started doing weights. Now I'm 39 and I, and I've from everything I've been reading, I'm obsessed with Andrew Huberman as well, his podcast as well. Um, and, and you
Heather:
I
Justin:
know,
Heather:
know that
Justin:
big thing
Heather:
one,
Justin:
he
Heather:
yeah.
Justin:
talks a lot of, a lot of stuff that he talks about is like how, you know, your muscle, you'll start having muscle decline from around the age 40 if you're not working out. So I've started doing gym and I love it. And, you know, and saunas and cold. a dam, we live on a farm and we've got a dam here.
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
And so I'm going in the dam three times a week for a cold plunge. And I like those kinds of things I love. And I think also. I've got this theory that like the human brain needs challenges. And if we don't challenge ourselves, then we'll find problems in our life and create the challenges out of things that are happening in our day to day life, whether it's with our loved ones or in our business or whatever, we'll create these struggles for ourselves. So I go in the dam or in the sauna or do a hard work, I say every single day in order to give my brain that challenge and to push my brain further. I think that makes my, even though I'm sure I'm still quite difficult to live with, I think that makes me like a lot easier to get along with because I've created those challenges for myself and I've put my brain through those hard struggles. And so
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
I guess, I don't know, there's just something about like Joe Rogan, who I'm more obsessed with than the other ones, but Joe Rogan, you
Heather:
Yeah
Justin:
know, always talks, Joe Rogan always talks about how like the hardest thing that's ever happened to you or the worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened. to you. And the worst thing that's ever happened to you could be someone else takes your parking spot at the supermarket. You know, it's all, it's all relative. And by giving, by putting our bodies through stress and our brains through, through stress, stress and struggle, it does something where it makes the rest of our lives more in it. It makes it more, um, Well, it makes it easier because you've done that difficult thing. Um, and so that's, and I think it's also really good. Like I think. And I think other people like this, or it could just be me. Maybe I'm just admitting to mental illness here, but I have this voice in my brain. That's like, that's always commenting on everything and always narrating everything and always like, and quite negative. We've got, you know, why did you do that? And why did that person say that? And why this happen? And by doing those hard things like, um, meditation or like going in the dam or like having a hot sore and that kind of thing, it quietens that voice because that voice is saying, don't get in that dam what's wrong with you. It's three degrees. you know, we're going to get hypothermia. That's a really bad idea, but I go in anyway. And there's something about doing those things that chattery part of your brain doesn't want you to do that quietens down that part of the mind. And that's a big part of my routine is doing those difficult things in order to make me not such a pain to live with. And
Heather:
Oh,
Justin:
auditory,
Heather:
I love it.
Justin:
yeah. So that's
Heather:
It's
Justin:
one
Heather:
the...
Justin:
of my big things is exercise.
Heather:
Yeah, very smart. Do you have any others?
Justin:
Um, I take a lot of superfoods, like a lot, like you'd think after 20 years, I'd be over them, but I'm not at all. Like I'm
Heather:
Are
Justin:
super
Heather:
they all
Justin:
obsessed
Heather:
your own?
Justin:
with, yeah, of course, everything. And that's the thing. That's how, that's how, you know, that's how we come up with new products as well as we will look at like. Like we've just released, it's going to be available probably from tomorrow the next day, but like an activated charcoal product because activated charcoal, it just encapsules because activated charcoal is amazing for like, if you've got a stomach ache or for moving heavy meals from the body, or if you accidentally eat something you're not meant to, or, you know, by when I first met my wife, we were walking around the garden and there was, there was some weed that she'd never seen before. And she's like, I'm going to try a bit. I'm like, don't try a bit. That's poisonous. Like I know what that is. And she's like, you're joking. And she puts it. mouth. I'm like, no, that's poisonous. Don't eat that. And she, for some reason, thought I was joking and just went ahead and had active charcoal and stuff. But we've had animals as well. They've actually, you know, like, cause avocado is very dangerous for a lot of animals. So we've
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
had goats, she's accidentally fed the goats, avocado before and we've given them charcoal and they've been fine. And so this, there's a, it's an amazing product, the activated charcoal, but we wanted to take that ourselves. So we're like, let's come up with an activated charcoal. That's like really high quality. It's really for people to take. It's not messy. We've just gotten the product ready to go now and it's about to go online. So all of our products are based on things we wanna take. Yeah,
Heather:
That's exciting. Well, congrats
Justin:
yeah,
Heather:
on that.
Justin:
yeah.
Heather:
So I wanna leave with one last question before we
Justin:
Yep,
Heather:
say goodbye. And that is for
Justin:
yes.
Heather:
people that wanna dabble in superfoods, maybe they haven't yet.
Justin:
Yes.
Heather:
Where should they start? Where would be some of your products that they should start?
Justin:
I mean, I would say people should, we've got a quiz on our website, which is like created by the nutritionist, our in-house nutritionist. And it kind of asks you a whole lot of simple questions. And I can give you some really good ideas about where's best to start for you. We've got close to 50 different superfoods available now. So there's a lot of different options here. Um, just go with like. something that's going to be a benefit for you. So a lot of people, the Lion's mane is probably the most popular because it's really good for focus and productivity and reducing brain fog. And you know, it's Australian grown, and it's freeze dried and it's, it's a whole food rather than an extract. And it's a really high quality lion's mane product. And it's probably my favorite. And so that's a really good place. I think that's where a lot of people start because lion's mane is very popular at the moment. And so I think a lot of people buy the lion's mane go, Oh, wow, this is incredible. And then go, what else is there that is good for me as well? So maybe the lines means a really good place for people to start.
Heather:
That's where I started. Then I moved on
Justin:
Yeah.
Heather:
to, I'm looking at my thoughts, the Naked Greens that I moved
Justin:
Yes.
Heather:
on to, the Tumeric Morning Amla, I think it's pronounced.
Justin:
Yes.
Heather:
And I have the hemp oil as well. Just
Justin:
Amazing.
Heather:
keep moving on to new ones.
Justin:
Soon you'll become like me. Like you've got three cupboards just full of superfoods at home and like, there's nowhere to put cups anymore because it's just superfoods everywhere. And yeah.
Heather:
Oh, you know what? If there's a problem that I had, I wouldn't mind.
Justin:
Yeah, exactly. It's a good problem to have.
Heather:
Oh, this has been such a great chat. I feel like I should ask you when's your business book coming out? Because Matt, do you have a book? Are you going to write a book? Good. You have amazing advice.
Justin:
Um, I don't think I'm going to write books. I feel like all of my advice is just stuff that I've found from. other people, you know, because I've always
Heather:
Okay.
Justin:
wanted to learn. I've always wanted to get better. And so like, I listened to all these different podcasts and I read all these different business books. And like, you know, my, my wife will go, what are you reading now? And I'd be like, you know, how to write email marketing. It doesn't suck. It should just roll her eyes. Like, you know, she's read some incredible novel and I'm reading about email marketing. But I love all that stuff. But I think, like, I think for business owners,
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
I think, I think it's, it's people don't realize what a hard slog it can be, you know, and for the first five you know, we'll pay ourselves a hundred bucks a week just to be able to buy some food, you know, and there was, there was no money in it whatsoever. And, but we kept persevering because we believed in what we're doing and believed in, you know, the fact that we were going to be helping all these people and, and it was, it was a business in a, in a product range that we really believed in. And I think if you get into a business. So when I was 25, I started this business called easy shoes, cause I'd heard about Zappos in the U S which was like a massive shoe
Heather:
Yeah, of
Justin:
company.
Heather:
course.
Justin:
I was like, wow,
Heather:
Yeah.
Justin:
no one's doing this in Australia. I'll start my own online shoe company in Australia. And I got all the photos and I made all these deals with these shoe companies to buy all their leftover stuff and set up the website. And then one day I was sitting down outside in summer and I was like... I barely wear shoes. Why am I starting? I hate shoes. You know, why am I starting a shoe business? And I, and I, I realized then that like, you know, that business has to be something you believe in because for a lot of time, at least the first couple of years, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be a struggle and you have to really believe in what you're doing. And I think, I think that's really important to believe in what you're doing, but I also think it's really important to like. Be aware of your own natural rhythms and, and rather than trying to force yourself to work when you don't feel like it. trust that you're going to come back to it and you're going to feel like working another day. Cause that's what happens to me is, you know, I'll wake up in the morning and be like, I can't be bothered working today. I'm going to spend the whole day in the garden. But then that night I'll be inspired and I'll work for six hours, you know, until I go to sleep at 11 o'clock at night, whatever it is. And I think there's something to be said as a business owner, you don't have to clock on and off. So you can go with your natural rhythm and much more. And when you feel like working, work then, and when you don't feel like working, do the other stuff you enjoy, you know, you know, do some hobbies or hang out with your family, whatever it is. Don't be so hard on yourself to be like, no, I need to work now because, you know, it's 9 AM. So it's time to work, have a bit more flexibility in that and go with your natural rhythms and go and work when you feel inspired to work, because that's when you're going to do good work anyway. And now, especially in the, you know, the online space has grown so much over the last five years or so it's become such a massive competitive industry that I think it's no longer enough just to put something out. with my first business, the website was ridiculous. It was just all gifs floating around and it was just awful and ugly.
Heather:
Ha
Justin:
When I go back
Heather:
ha!
Justin:
and look at it, I'm like, how did people even find how to buy stuff? It's just like weird images everywhere.
Heather:
Oh...
Justin:
But like these days, there's a much
Heather:
Yep.
Justin:
higher standard. And websites are beautiful now and the information is so well set out. And I think, if you're not gonna do good work, then don't work, do something else. Come back to it when you feel like you're ready to do can put out and put that out.
Heather:
That is a beautiful thing to finish this episode off on. Thank you. Wow. What a great chat. I've really enjoyed our conversation. There's just one
Justin:
Me
Heather:
beautiful
Justin:
too.
Heather:
thing after another to support the business community. So we're going to leave the show notes, like links to the quiz and all, you know, where to go get your supplements. My favorite lion's mane as well.
Justin:
Yeah.
Heather:
So Justin, thank you so much for being here. Much, much appreciated.
Justin:
Thanks
Heather:
The
Justin:
Heather.
Heather:
listeners will love you. Any last comments before we say goodbye?
Justin:
Nah, I had a really good time and thanks for having me on.
Heather:
Excellent. Thank you.
Justin:
Thank you, see you.
