Episode 49 Transcript
Heather:
Alright, so here we are with my amazing guest, Rochelle, who I have known for close to 20 years, which is crazy. How's it going, Rochelle?
Roechelle Williams:
It doesn't make us sound very young, does it Heather?
Heather:
Uh, yeah, we were, we were 10, right? Oh
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, yeah. Really all our life.
Heather:
my God. I know. Um, Rachelle's has such a business journey. She's had multiple businesses over the years. And I just thought she'd be such a great person to talk to you guys about business growth challenges, but also her area of specialty as well, which we'll get into coming up soon. And guys, as you know, I always like to just jump straight into a few tips before we learn more about Rachelle. So. Let's get into the tips. What are three tips that you have used in your business career to grow your businesses smarter, to stay away from that hustle and grind sort of culture that we're all exposed to?
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, 100%. And I think, you know, being in the hustle rebellion, like, my tips are very much around that from years of experience, through the multiple businesses that I've had, understanding, you know, your trading time for money. So my number one tip is, is create something that's leveraged, create something that doesn't rely on your time, because it is a limited resource that you have, or we all have. um is creating a business that you can you don't have a limited ability to expand that if you get to your x amount of hours that you're wanting to work that that's capping your income or capping your earning capacity um so that would be tip number one create something with um with leverage my tip number two is do something that makes your heart sing that you're really passionate about Um, many years ago I did the passion test and I think, um, there's a beautiful quote that is if you find something that you love to do for a living, you'll never feel like you worked a day in your life. Now I'm put it into my own words and I can't even tell you who said it, but the gist of finding something that, that actually fills you up is, is critical because I think as an entrepreneur or definitely when we're working for ourselves where you know, we're creating all the time and we're needing to put a lot of energy into that. And I think if that's effortless or that's in flow, then it's way more, um, it's way easier to build and way easier to, to kind of create something that you feel is, you know, good in the world, but also,
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
you know, it makes your heart sing and it makes you feel good about what you're doing. And I would say the third piece is, you know, I could do 10 tips because there's so many lessons that you learn in business. But I think that my third tip would be to create some sort of legacy income. So it is creating something that continues to pay you even after you finish doing the work. And I often, my, life story that stems from you will relate to being in web. I think back and I think, you know, for every website that I had built, if I had a trail commission on every single site, you know, how much more income I would have created over my years. And I'm not saying that's the only thing that you can do it with, but actually being smart in business and creating something once that pays you over and over. I have a big experience in network marketing and that was probably where, you know, the seed was planted for that sort of leveraged income is creating the efforts, 1% of 100 people rather than 100% of my own efforts and utilizing that, but not creating something that is continuously needing your efforts to make money.
Heather:
Yeah, smart. I'm gonna take a step back to your point number two around passion, working with something that makes your heart sing. I've known you for a long time, so I'm gonna ask you what makes your heart sing right now?
Roechelle Williams:
Um, my currency, when I talk about making money in business, like my currency is helping people, is seeing people take something that they thought was just who they were and weren't putting much value to it and turning that into something that was helping others or really valuable to others. Like I think my, if I was to say what is my... my genius, it is to pull out of somebody else their personal IP, like their life experience, that's kind of come to this point in all these weird things that like I look at my background and I think gosh it was just an orchestrated event of all the things that I needed to do exactly what I'm doing right now. And if I bring that to the table and help other people to see what they've created through their life experience and how they can turn that into a course or a podcast, or a business that is based on who they've created themselves to be to this point in life. And because that's forever evolving, that just like helping people define that and create an income out of that and get freedom out of that and not be shackled to you know, the system, that's what makes my heart sing. And I think, you know, when I'm doing that time just disappears, like I can talk underwater about it. I could talk all day about it. And I don't feel like I've really worked. I think, gosh, people pay me really good money to have this conversation.
Heather:
Ha!
Roechelle Williams:
Yet, you know, it's so effortless when you find that thing that you, you know, and own it. I think for us women, that's probably one of the biggest navigators that I deal with is, you know, that imposter syndrome and that,
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
you know, not being good enough, not feeling like what we have to say is valuable enough for somebody to hear and helping somebody, and I do work with women specifically, and so helping women to find that voice and step into that value and see how amazing they are is probably the biggest part of the journey that. You know, it's
Heather:
That's... yeah,
Roechelle Williams:
so inspiring
Heather:
I can tell.
Roechelle Williams:
to see somebody go through that.
Heather:
Yeah, and it's great that you found that. And I want to give some context to why you're wired like this as well. So and then we'll learn a little bit more about how you work currently and some tips around that. But let's take a few steps back in time. And if you could summarize your journey in business, what, where have you come from? What was your first business? And then how have you gotten to where you are now?
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, for sure. So my, I won't go too far back in time, otherwise we'll be here all day, but
Heather:
Ha
Roechelle Williams:
my,
Heather:
ha.
Roechelle Williams:
my starting ground, you know, like if I was to say, what would I have ended up doing if there was no restrictions? I was an actress, and I was on TV and film and musical theatre and like, I just, I loved expressing myself through that form. And I feel like it was my mom that said to me, like, you know, you either make it really big in that or you don't. And I felt like I had the ability to make it big. But I had a fear of being famous and losing my life because I was famous. Like, I just didn't want it. Like, I know this sounds probably so crazy from somebody on the outside. I'm like. she has tickets that she thought she was gonna be so famous she couldn't even go and get a bottle
Heather:
Hehehehe
Roechelle Williams:
of milk without somebody recognizing her. But that's what I was like, I don't want my life to be dictated like the Hollywood where everyone's taking photos. I'm like, oh no, that's not what I want. But if I could be, you know, if I could act and I could be in movies and that and not be recognized, that would be perfect. But at some point I just went, you know what? I'm actually gonna opt out of that and go. into a corporate career and it was stemmed basically from I wanted to buy a car and I wanted
Heather:
Mm-hmm.
Roechelle Williams:
to rent an apartment and Being an actress you make a lot of money one month and then you it might go months before you get another gig and so I wanted that consistency and you know the things that everyone was Building your status with at that at that particular time. I mean I was quite young I just got back from overseas and I was like I just want to have the things that all my friends are having like now I wish I hadn't, but you know, we all live and learn. And so I went into corporate and I was, I was pretty, um, I was pretty driven to, to get to the top and, and get there as quickly as I could. So I went kind of through sales and marketing for Optus. Um, you know, became a sales consultant and national for their kind of mobile phone sales and that sort of thing. And kind of giving some background to my life, my father was in business. And so all I had known was small business. Like my mum worked with my dad, my dad had a multimillion dollar business, he was super successful. And so for me, I was like, the thought of actually running my own business was a dream, but not one that I thought that I could. And... A beautiful, beautiful way that we met was life coaching.
Heather:
Totally.
Roechelle Williams:
My friend convinced me that she wanted to go and do this life coaching course. And I was like, okay, I'll go and support you. And Neil stood up on the stage and he said, it's only your beliefs that hold you back. And I was like, I didn't believe I could be a business owner. And I was like, okay. So, you know. that was my path. I just went from that moment, I was like, I'm gonna decide to be a business owner. And I bought into my first business and have been in business now for 20 years. So it's kind of like, it was that one belief, I say, that totally changed the trajectory of my life. And look, I didn't nail it in my first business nor my second or my third. you kind of grow into that. But I think that was the, that was the path of going, you know what, I'm going to give it a go. I'm going to, I'm going to do my own thing because if it's just a belief, then I'm just going to shift that belief. And I shifted that belief and next minute I was like, wow, okay, with that belief, I can be a business owner. I can try business and yeah, it kind of blossomed from there.
Heather:
Beliefs are interesting things, aren't they? Because you can really honestly change really quickly when you change the belief that you have. Like you said, it was just a moment, a moment in time, and it set you on a trajectory for the next 20 years of what, you know,
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah.
Heather:
being a business owner.
Roechelle Williams:
And yet, yet they can be so stubborn. Like, especially depending on how
Heather:
Yep.
Roechelle Williams:
many references we have for them or how solid they are in our, who in our makeup, like it's just, it's like, yes, that shifted. So I think easily now, but at the time I remember I was crying. I was like holding onto, well, if my dad cut, you know, cause my dad had lost everything in the eighties. And so
Heather:
Right.
Roechelle Williams:
I was like, if my dad can't make this work, how am I ever gonna be successful? You know, and of course there's so many layers. Of course I then built a business and lost everything because I was still, all these multiple little beliefs that were sitting off that were running and driving my experience and what I was creating in my life. So yeah, it's a really interesting. reflection when you look at it like it is just a belief but holy moly beliefs are you know multifaceted and have got you know they come back to bite you think you've changed that belief and then it's like oh yeah really have you let me test
Heather:
I know.
Roechelle Williams:
let me test how strong that belief is for you know are you going to give up at the first turn or you know if i trip if i trip you over and you fall down and you scrape your knee are you going to give up like how much do you want this
Heather:
Or if you're too stubborn, like I was talking to another guest recently and he goes, don't be a martyr of your own business. You know, don't have to think like if it's going to get done right, it's up to me, all these beliefs, right? That we literally have to work hard to achieve this. Like you're, we're ingrained with them and we come into the business environment with them and that's why so many of us are held back. We get stressed, um, because we believe maybe that's what comes with business. Right.
Roechelle Williams:
Well I think ever there's a really big element of ego around that too
Heather:
Mm.
Roechelle Williams:
like I know
Heather:
True.
Roechelle Williams:
we all say oh we're gonna believe that we have to work hard to make money but if we can make money and it doesn't actually involve us who are we like why do we need to be in that and so we tie ourselves up in not letting go of things because then we're important and we're a really pinnacle part of what makes our business make money. So therefore we're needed and you know, the ego gets stroking and everyone's happy, but
Heather:
Ha ha
Roechelle Williams:
it doesn't
Heather:
ha!
Roechelle Williams:
enable us to really scale. And that's, I think the critical thing that holds us back is holding on, like just doesn't allow that growth. It doesn't allow that ability for your business to grow beyond you. But yeah, what you know. We're covering
Heather:
Yeah. Well said.
Roechelle Williams:
some pretty deep topics of beliefs
Heather:
I wanted
Roechelle Williams:
and ego.
Heather:
this to
Roechelle Williams:
I'm
Heather:
come.
Roechelle Williams:
like.
Heather:
No, I wanted this to come out. This is good because as soon as we started going on the belief tangent, I just know that sometimes we just we don't see that we're the ones. holding ourselves back or that we are the ones that can actually change in that moment, like you said. So it's a good reminder to people listening.
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah,
Heather:
And
Roechelle Williams:
yeah.
Heather:
it's also a good time for me to start to talk more about what you do now,
Roechelle Williams:
Mm-hmm.
Heather:
because you certainly have had an amazing journey. So let's talk a little bit about what you specialize in now. And if you find it easiest to walk us through case study of somebody that you've worked with recently, some from point A to point B, please let's do that. business
Roechelle Williams:
What does
Heather:
to get
Roechelle Williams:
he do?
Heather:
people results.
Roechelle Williams:
So, well, I touched on it a bit earlier in that if I can work with women and generally all of my clients are women in online business, which is quite a broad stroke. However, it's finding their genius and creating a leveraged product that they can create a legacy income or create some sort of ongoing income that isn't relied on their efforts. So if I was to walk you through a case study, it would be identifying what they're currently doing and what their skills are and what they're either owning are their expertise or pulling out of them what they wanna be known for and if they wanna leave a mark on the world, what does that look like? What is, you know. what do they want to be said at their funeral of the impact that they had on the world and how they helped their person navigate through their expertise, like really blossoming into who they are. And I think that comes with a lot of uncomfortableness, if we're
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
real, like we've got a kind of... if we're going to stand up and say I'm an expert or I'm amazing at this, I am a master at this particular thing, that's why I should be the person to help you to do that. We've got to be really solid in our ability to deliver that particular thing or to help that person get from A to B. And so sometimes there's some stepping stones in doing that and there's some personal growth which, you know. I've done life coaching, I've done, you know, running a wellness center and having lots of spiritual teachers around and all of that comes together because it, you know, yes, it is business and yes, we're building a course and we're making money in our businesses, but we're humans that are doing that and women especially are doing that and we've got baggage like whether it's, you know, pre-children, post-children, not had children. Like we just bring all of that into our workplace. And I think for women finding their flow is the critical effortlessness. My tagline is it gets to be easy if you get out of your own way. Like if you get into flow and you start doing things that make the energy, like you're going with the stream, you're not paddling against the current. And as women, I think when we get into our masculine and we do, where we're paddling upstream, we're not, we're not in flow and in our feminine essence and, and we're rewriting this or we're actually writing it for the first time because women in the workplace and in the workforce, it's, it's a new revolution, it's a new way to pave. And I think we started by coming into the workforce with our masculine energy and doing the do like. men do and then we need to move and find our feminine energy and how we, how we orchestrate that around the rest of our crazy lives. Cause you know, we put our hand up and said, we want to be successful business women and we want to be moms and we want to do this and we are like, seriously, what were we
Heather:
We're
Roechelle Williams:
signing
Heather:
crazy,
Roechelle Williams:
up for?
Heather:
right?
Roechelle Williams:
Oh my God. Totally. Yeah.
Heather:
So when you're working with somebody, do you start with working on, I guess, what they wanna be known for? Do you do mindset work with them? How does the relationship start with you?
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, so the first part which really brings out most of the internal demons is your ability to dream what it is that you want to create.
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
And we call it create, you know, what is your yes life? What is it, what does your yes life look like that you want to create? And what does your yes business look like? Because I think there's another fundamental thing that the conversation goes to, we don't often just put our CEO cap on and actually decide this is how we want our business to run. We run it based on what we've seen somebody else do and we don't design it to fit in with the way that we want to work and the way that it works for us.
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
And so we do that initially. We pull out like what is your grand vision, which of course then stirs up all the demons of I'm not good enough and I could never have all of that. I'm gonna pull it apart before I even start creating it. And we work through that sort of stuff. So we open up the Pandora's box of what's possible and if you had no limitations, what would it look like? And then we look at, okay, well, what does that look like? How could you create that with my edge of, I'm always coming in and going, how leveraged is that? How passive is that? How automated is that? How systemized is that? And how much of... of you is going into this that's going to limit its growth and its expansion to kind of share with the most amount of people.
Heather:
That's good. I love the framework. Okay, cool. So you bring them into understanding what they might want to do their yes business in life and then you run them through the framework and then what happens from there when you realize, okay, this could be good for them. This is going to deliver the vehicle that they want.
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah.
Heather:
Where do you take them from there?
Roechelle Williams:
So then we have a team of VAs. So I then, I help them because it's, it's not an easy thing for us to ask for what we want and, you know, and get it done by somebody else. And so we're dealing with the letting go and we're dealing with, you know, tasks need to be done. And the best way to do that is with a VA. So we, in our programs work with a VA and that VA basically will implement the ideas that we're having from a tech perspective. So we, We set up a system, we set up the automation, we set up the audience, we talk about how they're going to talk about and share their message of who they help and how they're gonna help them, and then how they're gonna deliver that. And so all of that kind of back end creation of the course or creation of the product happens with their VA. And I just keep my finger on the pulse and come in and. heard us all through the process of evolution, of starting with what we thought was a great idea and finding out that we don't like it and then going to the next thing and evolving to Nirvana, which you never get there and you're never done. So
Heather:
Yeah, good
Roechelle Williams:
it's
Heather:
point,
Roechelle Williams:
a journey.
Heather:
right?
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, yeah. Just when you think you've
Heather:
So.
Roechelle Williams:
got it sorted, you're like, I don't really want to do that anymore. So.
Heather:
He's so why do we do this to ourselves? I think human beings are so cruel in ourselves because we're always especially business owners Entrepreneurial sort of types of characters. We're always like, okay. I'm always striving. I'm always pushing I'm always striving and then it cut you get it and you're like, okay. I'm always striving him Pushing
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, yeah.
Heather:
like it's yeah, it's crazy
Roechelle Williams:
But I think too, like you, you know, that saying where, you know, like you can't see from where you are, but when you get to the top of the mountain, you see then, oh, there's all this. Then of course, like
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
where I think we need to make peace with that rather than feel like we're forever achieving and striving to impress somebody or something, or, you know, even internally our own. I want to be successful because of something or, you know, because of my life experience. I want to prove something to somebody. Like, I actually feel like our innate human condition is to create. And we create based on what we currently have. And so when we get to a stage or a phase, we have a different perspective of what we could create next. and we have a competence or a confidence that comes from the tasks that we've done that then give us a different perspective to go, Oh, well I could do this now. Like, but if I told you, you could do that from the beginning, you would never believe me. Or you'd never, you know, you can't use my experience to do that. You actually need to discover that in your own journey.
Heather:
really well said. What are a couple tips right now or trends that you have come across with your clients that are working really well for that leveraged sort of business?
Roechelle Williams:
Um, well, creating something that's scalable, like creating, um, something that isn't limited by your service ability. So if, if you have to spend three hours to deliver that thing, you have a limit to how many you can do. Yes, you can probably train somebody or several people to do that. So get that scalability. Um, but I think one of the trends that we're seeing post COVID is, is this. online space where you can create something once and you can deliver it over and over and, and only have to show up for a few hours or components of that. Um, and I think, you know, the trend, I don't know what your perspective is, but mine is definitely like, people are craving you, like they're craving that connection piece. And so That to me is great, but it's also limiting as in, it limits my life. So I don't wanna pour too much of myself in, but if I can have a group of a hundred people and I'm talking and having that same conversation, we're all getting value from that, which is the same value of a podcast, where we're having a conversation, but so many other people can tap in and listen to that. Like that leverage. piece in whatever you're creating is thinking about, okay, how can I create something once and leverage it multiple times or use it in different formats or, you know, content where we're constantly creating all this content. And another trend is, is people are just screaming out for somebody to simplify the amount of content that's available. It's not like you have to have an original idea. Like I feel like all the ideas are done. It's just your ability to actually sift through all of the stuff that's out there and make it like really simple. And if you have that ability to have done that yourself and therefore found the path that you went through, teaching that is what people are craving is just that, show me the shortcut, like cut through all the bullshit, cut through all the fluff and give me the end result that I want. in the shortest amount of time possible because I don't have a lot of that.
Heather:
Yeah, I agree. Um, the, the thing is, and I love what you said about leveraging yourself because there, I feel like there's a big shift going on right now, especially with the advent of AI and more and more content going out there where people are going to want exactly the two things you spoke about more of a human being, like a real person.
Roechelle Williams:
Mmm.
Heather:
So if we know that, then how can we be smarter about our time? Like you just said, and number two is simplification, especially now there's just so much out there. It's like. that how can you make it applicable to the person in front of you at the simplest, fastest way to get them a result. So
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah,
Heather:
I'm not
Roechelle Williams:
yeah.
Heather:
surprised if those are your trends that you mentioned.
Roechelle Williams:
And well, yeah, like, and it's, we're competing, like, we're competing for airtime, like, we're competing for,
Heather:
Totally.
Roechelle Williams:
you know, how many other podcasts are having these sorts of conversations, yet, people are craving to listen to that podcast, it's going to give them that inspiration or lift them up or to something that they hear that helps them on their journey. Like, we're wanting, we're wanting so much yet. We've also got to sift through like, what's garbage what's you know being created by generated by a machine and really doesn't have the essence of what you're looking for and so yeah we kind of that's what i'm seeing is the craving for connection um and just wanting to actually work with somebody in person like it's so you know it's so zoomified and everything has you know is online and we're kind of like actually it's really nice to meet somebody and give them a hug and like I don't care if we don't learn anything it's just really nice to meet other people and connect.
Heather:
Yeah, oh, I so agree, I so agree. And on that note, if people wanna connect with you, where can they find you? Where do they connect with you?
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah. So we, I have a, um, we can link it in the show notes, but, um, I have a free Facebook group where we basically give all of our tips and tricks and, you know, you get to understand and know us, you know, my first point leverage, that's where we go in every week and we, we pour content, we pour value into our community. So that's probably the best place, um, to get started. And I have a podcast, which is, it gets to be easy. Um, where you know, we're talking about all the things that we can cut through to make our business life easier and more effortless and, um, you know, if we never get there and we're never done, we want to make it a fun journey on the way. Thanks
Heather:
I freaking,
Roechelle Williams:
for watching!
Heather:
I love it. It's so aligned with this show as well. So it's so good. Like the messages
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, yeah.
Heather:
that you have. Um, yeah. So you guys, if you're looking to pick up a new podcast that you want to go out and check out, check out, definitely check out for yourselves, uh, any last tips or ideas that have come up from this conversation that you want to share with our listeners.
Roechelle Williams:
Um... Oh, that's, I'm like, how many more things can I have in my little head? No. I
Heather:
Hehehe
Roechelle Williams:
think, um, probably the other pillar of what I stand by, I call myself the automation queen, cause I'm just like, whatever you can automate, whatever you can systemize, whatever you can, you know, sometimes you have to do it manually to see whether it's going to work, but if you can automate it, like. be the first person to let go of something and let it be automated because the automation I can guarantee will be way more efficient than you as a human with emotions and different days and feeling like you wanna work one day and not the next. Like that automation will actually give you that consistency. So whether it's like committing to doing a blog post or a podcast or something that is a commitment of content but actually let the automation piece. take in and spread that message to as many people as possible. Yeah,
Heather:
Very,
Roechelle Williams:
that's probably
Heather:
very
Roechelle Williams:
my
Heather:
good
Roechelle Williams:
last
Heather:
note
Roechelle Williams:
piece.
Heather:
to end our conversation on absolutely big believer in that, that just having that mindset of how can you repurpose repackage use automation. You guys shine your light, give your message once, but let your machine support you, you know, to get it
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah,
Heather:
out there.
Roechelle Williams:
yeah, I have a question for you like just as in
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
creating a rebellion, I love
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
it, around hustle. Like what would your biggest takeaway in your life experience be to cut that hustle out and to still have the thing that feeds your joy and feeds your energy, because sometimes I feel like when you cut things out, you feel like, oh. Like I really like designing. I don't really want to give that to someone else. Then I don't really
Heather:
Hehehe
Roechelle Williams:
have a part to play. But yeah, what would be your tip?
Heather:
I love that you asked a question, smart one. So my main tip is the, I live and breathe by my calendar. I know it sounds so unsexy, but I literally have things blocked out from my, you know, my Pilates classes that I go to, you know, I'm gonna block this time out to call my mom or whatever. Like I literally block it out because it will get taken, my team will book it. So that's, I live and breathe by it and it's a nice combination of me as well as clients team. So that's huge. But also, yeah, I mean, there are things that I still like to do, and I'm still going to do them. And I don't have to delegate those things. And I think
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah,
Heather:
that's
Roechelle Williams:
yeah.
Heather:
the key is like always, and it changes all the time too. It changes from year to year. So it's just going, what do I like to do right now in my business, in my life, and hanging onto those things where you're like, Oh, that felt good. I liked that, you know, uh, and getting rid of the ones that are not. not quite
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah.
Heather:
aligned with you in that way. So I guess those are the two answers to your question.
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, thanks.
Heather:
But good question.
Roechelle Williams:
I think it's a real,
Heather:
Thank you.
Roechelle Williams:
like to me, it's a, there's a real divine, cause I nearly throw up in my mouth when you tell me to put things in my calendar. Cause I'm, I'm like, if I have a full calendar, that makes me feel really unfree. Like I'm like, I like to have open spaces so that I can just jump in and
Heather:
Yeah.
Roechelle Williams:
do what I feel like I want to do. So what I hear in what you said is such a, like a beautiful permission to find your flow. Like find
Heather:
That's
Roechelle Williams:
your
Heather:
it.
Roechelle Williams:
way of doing the thing because everyone's going to say, do this, do that. Of course that's their thing, but find
Heather:
Totally.
Roechelle Williams:
your flow, like find your. Your like, try it on for sure. Like when I hear that, I'm like, maybe I should put more things in my calendar and block out my
Heather:
Or
Roechelle Williams:
own,
Heather:
not.
Roechelle Williams:
you know, my time, it may work. Like somebody told me to, um, plan out my meals and Like the thought of that actually was like, oh my God, that's just so organized. And it makes, but I tried it and it gave me freedom. Like it actually gave me what I was searching for. So I think it's like, try it and then choose.
Heather:
Exactly. There is no right or wrong. And I think that's such a valid point and thank you for sharing that with everybody. Cause it took me five years to work out that that's actually what gives me freedom. And I was so counterintuitive to what I actually thought. So yes, please you guys
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah,
Heather:
test
Roechelle Williams:
yeah.
Heather:
and try. And just because we're giving you ideas here, um, maybe a few of them will resonate with you and you'll go out there and go, all right, I'm on board. Let's work on these beliefs. Now, whatever, whatever it is for you guys listening, but Rochelle, oh my gosh, I've loved having this chat. Thank you so much for being on and sharing, um, and your tips and just some really interesting, I guess, shifts that people might have needed to hear today. So thank you.
Roechelle Williams:
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been so much fun to reconnect.
Heather:
You too.
