Episode 81 Transcript
Heather Porter
Welcome to episode 81. Now, not too long ago, I was talking on this podcast about speaking at an event called Be Exponential. And it was actually quite an amazing event because I saw people there that I've known for years and maybe haven't seen for years. And one of them is Joe Pane. And when I saw him, we had a little chat, we had a connection. And I'm like, cool, we should have a chat on the podcast. So I've invited him in and he has a really interesting take on growing a business and also moments of overwhelm and how to handle that. And he has quite an incredible background. I mean, I'll just start with some of the personal facts. So he is a seven-time marathoner. How many people even just do one? Amazing. He's worked and helped over 7,000 mindset coaches, sort of the coach to the coaches over the years. He has a brand new book that we're going to talk about on this show called Courage to Be You, A Guide to Mastering Uncertainty. It's basically a culmination of his last 17 years of work in an incredible formula or framework on how to get through those moments of uncertainty and be more of you, which let's face it, When we're growing our businesses, every single step forward can feel hard sometimes because it's uncertain. So stay tuned and you'll find out how to get through those moments. Are you ready? Let's welcome Joe to the show. Welcome to the show, Joe. How's it going?
Joe Pane
Going very well. Thanks, Heather. Thanks for having me.
Heather Porter
So good. It's so good to have you here. And for those of you guys that are watching on YouTube and the socials, you'll see this large screenshot of Courage To Be You, which is clearly a book cover. And we're going to find out what that means in a second because I don't even know yet. So I'm going to ask you questions about that. But before we get stuck into that, I love just going with tips straight away. And I know that you've worked with like over 7,000 mindset coaches and you've helped to coach them. So you had access not only to growing your own practice, but also loads of other people's. So let's start with overwhelming moments. There's always going to be overwhelming moments when you're a coach or an entrepreneur and you're growing and scaling your business. And I'd love to hear a couple of tips from you, Joe, on what do you recommend somebody does in these moments where you're feeling a bit like you're spiraling out of control? And how do you get through this moment in time?
Joe Pane
Well, I've got a couple of ways of looking at this. One's very quirky and one's more... practical or whatever. The quirky one is, it's very quirky. I must warn you here, Heather, and that is that I remember when, I remember albums, the albums you wish to buy, you know, and I remember my first album was the twin of Off the Wall and Thriller. And it was the first album that went in to my album shelf thing. And I remember thinking, my God, this shelf is so big and this is only one album. It's like, it was overwhelming to think, how many albums do I have to buy to fill this shelf? And funnily enough, one album at a time, just as I've got into different artists and different things, within a few years, not only was that full, I had another thing on top of it with more albums and also the 12-inch singles that used to come out from those albums as well. So the point I want to make here is that sometimes, especially whether you're a consultant, a coach, a mentor of some kind where you're trying to get your business off the ground, it's literally one album at a time, which means We often are guilty of looking at the top of the mountain wondering, well, how in the heck am I going to get there? Comparing ourselves to people who are many, many years down the track instead of focusing on base camp. And base camp is simply, what's my next meeting? What's my next coaching session? What's my next networking event? What's my next article? What's the next thing that I can do that's within the confines of my choice frame, my control. It's really basic because I remember many times buying, say, somebody's audio program or whatever it was back then, and look at these wonderful people with these incredible programs going, oh my God, how am I supposed to get to that? Well, hold on a minute. You haven't even done the first step yet, which is to go out and start helping this one person, coaching that person, going to that networking event. It's literally step by step. There's that pragmatic component And there's also however you want to process that component, which is that, and as we'll share when we look at the Courage to Be Your Book, it's like really making sure you are aware of the quality of your relationship with uncertainty. Because when it comes to your first ever event, networking event, coaching session, trying to scale your business, investing money in marketing, and doing all these wonderful things that can be quite scary, it's how you measure up against your relationship with uncertainty that will absolutely determine whether you succeed at the level you want to succeed at.
Heather Porter
Oh my gosh, that's brilliant. I love that distinction. I've never heard anyone put it that way before. Both the album story gold, but relationship with uncertainty. Talk to me a little bit about that. How do you have a better relationship with uncertainty?
Joe Pane
by seeing it for what it really is. So what I mean by that is that the experiences that we have of anything, whether it's this moment here or any moment, it's a psychological construct, which is a fancy way of saying everywhere that we walk and talk and move, we are meaning making machines putting meaning on something that has no meaning. And so a lot of us put meaning on experiences based on mutually exclusive ideas that we correlate together to create a meaning. Now that's a very fancy way of saying when it comes to uncertainty, most people correlate uncertainty with fear. So whenever they experience something unknown, unfamiliar, something with no reference points, A lot of people will associate that into some kind of fear-based response, whether it's scarcity, closing up, sabotaging myself, procrastinating my life away, whatever. These are all expressions of fear. There's many other expressions as well. But when we look at uncertainty for real, Heather, and we look at nature, and behind you on the screen, you can't see it. I've got this glorious forest up our front acre here of our property. It's just magnificent. It's a koala habitat, right? And yeah, it's beautiful. And everything in nature demonstrates, whether we're talking about plant, insect, animal, whatever element of the nature world, is it all says the same thing in different ways. And that is that nature needs an obstacle of some kind in order to grow. So nature says, if it could speak, that uncertainty actually correlates with growth. And uncertainty is a requirement of life because growth is. Growth is a perpetual need of the human condition. Everything is growing. You're growing or dying. Your skill sets are growing or dying. Your market is expanding or shrinking. The economy is expanding or shrinking. Everything, our relationships are either evolving or devolving. Everything's moving in one direction or another. Nothing stays still. And so growth is a fundamental need of the human condition. And a precursory seed to all growth is uncertainty. So when I'm talking with clients about, and workshops and stuff that I do, where I say to people, this is about transforming your relationship with uncertainty, it's to start to recognize how everything that's happened in your life that has been really difficult has massively contributed to your growth and who you are today. The other flip side to that is, well, and this is normal, and we all say this, well, there's no hope in hell. I know it's helped me a lot, but there's no hope in hell I'm going through that again. It's like, absolutely. And this is where, in order to become emotionally fit, we need to become conscious inviters of uncertainty into our lives, you see.
Heather Porter
Oh my gosh, I love that you say that. I have a relationship. I sort of look at the comfort zone as a really toxic place to live in. And whenever I feel something that comes my way, I get nervous and I get that physical reaction. I'm like, okay, hold on. This is probably a good thing. Hold on. and embrace it. So I love your reframing all of that. And you know what's interesting is like you think about when humans were kids, we're all children, right? And we had to learn how to walk and everything we did in our life was for the first time. What happened along the way where we stopped embracing that? Like, why are people so suddenly scared of trying new things?
Joe Pane
Yeah, it's because of the unknown. It's because of a lack of reference points. An important point here to make is that there's a big difference between getting out of your comfort zone, which is unsustainable, versus expanding your comfort zone. Big difference. The difference is this. When we get out of our comfort zone, we've got no reference points. So in other words, oh, this is a new thing. I've got no evidence in my mind or any historical data or experiences or advice that I can hang my head on to navigate through this new thing. It's brand new and unfamiliar, and that's where all the nerves and the excitement. At the end of the day, no matter how scared or excited we feel to the nervous system, it's exactly the same thing. It's just what you want to call it. It's that. Or There's a sustainable way of doing it, which is expanding your comfort zone, where you have got reference points of experience, but now you're introducing brand new reference points, new ways of doing it. And by consistently and sustainably expanding your comfort zone, you can continue to grow. That's called conscious inviting of uncertainty into your life. Now, don't get me wrong, once every so often, it's brilliant to be in a situation where you're completely out of your comfort zone. I think it's very, very healthy. But when I was training those thousands of mindset coaches, I always said to them, well, if you try to get out of your comfort zone every morning, your ego is going to beat you down within a week and you'll start doing the opposite of that. You'll start doing procrastination and sabotage. So it's okay to jump out of your comfort zone, especially when you're starting, but continued and sustained growth is a sustainable way of expanding one's comfort zone, introducing new reference points and new ways of doing things. As long as you're doing that, you're growing. Otherwise, you end up with what you were just suggesting there, Heather, about having a toxic comfort zone.
Heather Porter
Good stuff. Okay, so I'm going to scale it back to like a granular, tangible little tip. So if somebody were to come to you, and I'm sure they have, and they're like, Joe, I'm overwhelmed, help, what do I do? What's like a step that somebody could take to embrace this new relationship with uncertainty?
Joe Pane
Well, first of all, you have to pause and ask yourself, well, what exactly is overwhelming here? You know, what's overwhelming me here? Am I trying to tune into too many radio stations at the same time? So this is where then with the conscious awareness, you can choose one specific thing to focus on you can control. So for example, I remember many years ago when I ran my first public event and it was scary. I had a couple hundred people coming. It was beyond like the last place I wanted to be was in that room. And I was overwhelmed by ... because I was looking at the top of the mountain here. I was looking at the whole event and what could get it wrong and all this. And then I said to myself, calm the farm. What's the next thing you need to do? Well, I was in the middle of making a cup of coffee. Well, make the effing cup of coffee. and enjoy it. And whilst you're sitting there, you're consciously choosing to sit for the next 10 minutes to have your cuppa, whilst I reflect on or start thinking about my next step as I manage my day, because tonight at seven o'clock, I'm gonna have these strangers coming into a room that are coming to see me, put all that aside. What's the next thing after this? Well, the next thing after this, I need to pack my bag. Okay, I need to iron a shirt. Do you get it? It's all these micro moments that we, put our focus on because trying to tune into more than one thing at a time is the combination, the formula of overwhelm. Another part to this that I want to add to this Heather is that I think there's great power, and I remember Mr. Michalowicz talking about this at the conference we were both at recently, where it's the power of setting a low bar, which is not a very common thing to talk about. Your standards are too high. They need to be low. It's like, what does that mean? Well, it's exactly what I just said. Low bar is, let's get through this cup of coffee. Let's go and iron the shirt. Let's prepare the bag. Let's prepare whatever we need to do. I need to make that phone call. I need to reach out to Heather for this. Step by step, low bar activities will keep you calm because our feeling of overwhelm is simply because of what we focus on. If you think about it, Heather, life is what we focus on, pure and simple. So by focusing on the simplicity of this cuppa and ironing that shirt or whatever the next step is, is where I'm tuning in my attention. It's just like tuning into 104 FM that plays gold music, say, for example. All you will hear is that 1990s music. You won't hear the talkback radio and all of the other stations because, as they say in quantum physics, what you focus on is what you get to the exclusion of everything else.
Heather Porter
Brilliant. Really beautiful, tangible focus, you guys. Just the baby step, the step ahead, what's in front of you. Yeah, love it. I want to change gears here and I want to talk a little bit more about your journey because you briefly said that we were just both at an event and we were speakers at this event. I know that you're a speaker and you've done keynotes and spoken at hundreds of conferences, your own as well as what you just said. How did you get to be Joe? Where did you come from? Now, what are you up to these days?
Joe Pane
You should ask my wife that. Where did he come from? Oh, we don't know. He just popped off one day. I don't know where he came from. Oh, that's a big question, Heather. My God. I just remember being curious for a long time about where I could possibly belong in this world. And by that I don't mean a role, I mean in terms of skill set. And I worked in the 90s straight out of my uni. So I did psychology, sociology at uni as majors and I ended up having a job at Ford Motor Company in Melbourne in a suburb called Broadmeadows where they used to make the the old Ford Falcon. And I was lost there. I was thrown into the deep end of the pool of secondary and tertiary agendas, toxic environments, malingerers, the politics of insurance companies and medical centers. It was just like I was lost. I was in the wrong pool, let alone the deep end. And during that phase, I was getting married to Syl, my current wife, as my wife often introduces me as her first husband, 27 years later, and we were building a house. And with all of that going on, I remember my dad, who was a licensed builder, who was our builder, was having an argument with one of the tradies at our house. And I took a lunchtime break out of Ford to go to this crazy situation on my block there where we were building. And I remember stepping in, in a very calm way, being the conduit of communication between my dad and this rather aggressive tradesperson. He was only aggressive because he felt disrespected and unheard from my father. My dad was the same, and we had this ego clash. And I found myself in the middle, just calming them both down, without telling them to calm down, but just communicating. talking, translating to each other's worlds what it is that it's trying to say. And it worked. Wow. And I thought to myself, oh my God, maybe this is something. This is something. I wanted to be with people. I wanted to work in a meaningful space. I even explored singing, Heather, because I love entertaining as well. Singing didn't work. One of my friends gave me very direct feedback on that.
Heather Porter
What'd they say?
Joe Pane
He said, you suck. Well, the other piece of feedback after that was, stop it. So I did. I stopped. It was terrible. So that was fascinating to me. I hated Ford. I mean, that's awful to say that, but I hated the environment of the manufacturing. There wasn't a 1990s in that place. Then I went into the world of real estate, which was fascinating to me. I learned so much about human behavior, door knocking, cold calling, and building my database, and doing sales. In that company, they were high on education and personal development. They would get us to pick a book from a reading list and do a book review. That book review, then you would do a little presentation to the team, about 10 people, on what you liked about that book. And I was always getting this really good feedback on my little sessions that would go for 20 minutes on reviewing this book. And I thought, wow, maybe there's something in that. I kind of like linked that to my dad's situation with that tradie fellow. I thought, maybe there's something. And then I heard about life coaching. I saw an ad in a magazine. I thought, what? Personal development business? What are you talking about? And I explored that. Within a heartbeat, I jumped in. And in February 2006, I got onto a program. I borrowed $30,000 from the bank, literally that was the number, to get going. That paid for my fees and getting going. Back then, I mean, Heather, this is 2006, so business cards, basic stuff that we don't have used today. And I was surrounded by good people and I just did as I was told by good people. And that's how I've evolved, I guess, from there.
Heather Porter
Oh my gosh. Interesting the reference points that you mentioned as well. Those little pivotal moments in your path that led you to that moment. I love those stories.
Joe Pane
Yeah. Yeah. I think everyone's got a superpower. You just gotta notice it.
Heather Porter
You do, don't you? And sometimes we forget. We forget. We do get overwhelmed. We do get jaded about things that are happening in our lives and finding that you, that inner you can be a challenge. And I think that's maybe a good question to ask you about the book because, well, before I go to the book, I want to talk to you about what you do right now because you do, I've seen you speaking and out there all over the place. So do you still coach other coaches? What's the core thing of your business?
Joe Pane
Yeah, I do coach other coaches and I also spend a lot of time out in industry and different commercial environments doing group work, specifically around emotional fitness. And emotional fitness is exactly what we said at the very beginning of this. It's measured by the quality of our relationship with uncertainty. to transform one's relationship with uncertainty, I make it very clear to people and to my guys when I'm teaching, doing all my work, is that it's not about making uncertainty easier because otherwise it wouldn't be uncertainty. It's about learning how to navigate the inevitable pressures, stresses, challenges, adventures that life brings, business brings, relationships bring, stuff brings. And I've just identified what I believe are five core areas that need to be navigated well in order to become what I call an emotionally fit human being. And part of that is also linked to how well we love people, how well we express our care for people, how well we allow others that we love to love us. There's a big component of that in the work. And also some, I guess you would say more practical things around how we actually create a reality through the manufacture of meaning and a whole host of other things. And then the emotional fitness work is the essence of what's in the book, Courage to Be You. So I called it Courage to Be You instead of emotional fitness because, and it says there, the tagline says your guide to mastering uncertainty. I called it Courage to Be You because I believe that sits at the core of navigating uncertainty. I think one of the greatest gifts that uncertainty gives all of us, Heather, is if you bring your awareness, it depends on how self-aware you are. If you're self-aware, you become aware of who you are and what you are in moments of pressure. Good point. My philosophy on life is that, okay, I don't want to sound all cliche, but this is going to be a cliche moment, but then I'm going to recover from that pretty quickly, which will be that, you know, the old cliche that everything you need is within you. It's like, well, I found that really useless for a long time because like, no, well, what do you mean? How do I find what's within me? It's like, well, as we live, it's like there's a fable in the book that I talk about. And it's the fable of the lost car, right, where this particular entity is born as a four-wheel drive, and it finds itself in a Formula One racing track, and it's comparing itself to these Formula One cars. Why do these cars go so fast? Why can't I go as fast as them? And it doesn't realize that it doesn't belong there. It doesn't realize that it's a four-wheel drive. And then one day, a mini-miner comes over to the four-wheel drive car and says, hey, listen, you've got the same problem as me. We can't keep up with these guys, but I've discovered that we're in the wrong place. I don't know where I belong, but you are a four-wheel drive. I can see that from here. You belong in the mountains. And it's like, what are you talking about? And it's like the mini-miner took this four-wheel drive over to the mountains. It's like, oh my God. And this four-wheel drive is climbing these mountains with glee and with joy and with this incredible passion. It's like, oh my God, this is my wheelhouse. This is where I belong. And then as the four-wheel-drive car is doing all of its adventures, it gets to the bottom of one of the mountains and it finds a Formula One car trying to climb the mountain. And the fable goes on in a lot more detail. But the point I'm making is that I truly believe that our values, our identity, how we feel, how we construct our emotions, understanding what stage of life that we're at, how we create a strong, healthy and clean perspective is all wired within and our job as we experience life is to unveil that. The book is not written for a 20-year-old. 20-year-old could read it, but it's typically for most of my clients, 90% of my clients base, which is 40 to 60-year-olds, It doesn't matter if you're 78, you can read it too, right, by the way. But the point I want to make is that you want to have a couple of decades under your belt of living life to really work out how you're wired. Are you a four-wheel drive? Are you an SUV? Are you a Formula One car? Are you a Mini? And the book goes deeply into realizing how to discover that so you can better navigate the guaranteed uncertainties life will bring.
Heather Porter
When did you know that this book was in you?
Joe Pane
about eight years ago. I used to run a personal development weekend actually called Courage to Be You. And the name bubbled up in my awareness, this sounds all whatever, but I was ironing a shirt in a Sydney hotel room preparing for a workshop and this title of Courage to Be You came to me. It was like, that's a really good title for what you're trying to get out there. And that was the beginning of creating the seminar that I was running for about five or six years, and quite a few people went through that. And then I knew that that was going to be the book eventually, because the book is essentially my 17 years of experience condensed to 60,000 words, where it takes us on a journey through five key areas, just very quickly, like helicopter view, identity, so being aware of what you are allowing yourself to be defined by because what you define yourself by will hold power over you and what defines us owns us and there's an identity journey and multiple phases that we go through in life and I cover all those in detail. The second focus there or the second core principle is life stages. So understanding where you're at from the ambition to meaning journey because we're all on unique journeys Heather but universally, we're all on a journey from ambition to meaning, which is where our values evolve, our perspective evolves, our philosophy evolves. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's life stages. And then the third part is our values, which I call our emotional compass. which is something to be discovered within as well. And I discussed in the book why most people don't know their values because they confuse their emotional compass with their moral compass. And as you'll discover in Courage to Be You, they're two completely different things. And there's an exercise in there on how to clarify the difference between the two. And then the fourth one is emotional flexibility. Having an appreciation that emotions don't respond to facts. Yep. Emotions only respond to the meaning that will give the facts. And then there's perspective. Perspective is the fifth one. So how to build a clean and healthy perspective that you can go into when you're in the dark.
Heather Porter
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Joe Pane
Amazon. It's available on a whole plethora of platforms that I can't remember, but Amazon is definitely one of them. Yeah, and there's also a website called CourageToBeYouBook.com. You can buy it there as well, but that's an Amazon link anyway. So either way. Either way to find you.
Heather Porter
I've spoken and interviewed quite a few publishers on this podcast and just know a few in my life as well. And one thing I want to ask you is like, what are you going to do with the book? Because the book is such a cool foot in the door to bigger and better things for you as well. So what are the plans for you off the back end of the book?
Joe Pane
I was asked that question earlier today. Look, I don't really know. I mean, I know that I'm going to embrace this book the way I embraced the beginning of my journey. It's literally day by day, week by week. I'm a firm believer in only focus as far as your headlights can shine. Don't try to imagine what's beyond the darkness or the lightness or however you want to frame it. Look, I'm looking forward to getting this book out to a number of clients who have been waiting for it for ages. I'm looking forward to seeing how the corporate world and the business world respond to it. I actually did a presentation to 57 businesses, very successful business owners, only about three weeks ago. And the book hadn't been released yet, so I didn't have it with me. But I spoke of some elements of the book and they were like loving it. So I thought, okay, we'll see how we go there. I've got to say Heather, this is how I will know whether this book is successful. In the middle of the book somewhere, there's a page there where I say to the reader, if you've made it this far and you are a complete stranger to me, like we've never met and I don't know you, and honestly this book has transformed something in your life, email me. Here's my email, direct email. And the day that I receive that email, I will be celebrating more than, I mean, I've been celebrating the fact that it's done and all that kind of thing. But I'll be celebrating when I get that email from a complete stranger that says, oh my Lord, I don't know you, but this is the page you told me to email you. Here it is. That day, happy as Anyone could be.
Heather Porter
It'll be just like that little moment of validation, that little moment where you know, okay, this is it. I've ripple effect out there to somebody and made a massive difference. Wow. Okay. So based on the book, I also want to know how you work with people. So you said you work with groups and you speaking and whatnot, but like if somebody were to say, Joe, Joe, I'm loving this conversation. How do I work with you? What are the options? What can people do?
Joe Pane
Yeah, so with organizations, what we do, I often will tailor-make just the logistic side of it. So for example, there's a group of tradies at the moment who saw me speak at a tradies conference. So I put together a program for them that was just tailor-made. But it's essentially the same, the courage to be immaterial. And for them, what worked for them was we'd do 90-minute sessions on Zoom on a Tuesday night, spreading over five or six weeks. That really worked for them. It suited their family life, their business life, and their commitments. With other companies and groups, we do larger workshops, whether it's face-to-face or I prefer to do multiple installations or chapters because that's how we learn more effectively. So whether it's a sales organisation, a multinational, whether it's a local small business. I'll give another example. There were eight very small businesses from Melbourne. Well, one was from Tassie and seven were from Melbourne that came up to here to Noosa and they rented a house. They had a three-day retreat. In the middle of that, they got me to come in for a whole day and we just had a one, me and eight of them. I presented some frameworks and then they shared with me their fears. their relationship with uncertainty and how it's sucked here and it's been really great here and just giving them that guidance through scenarios that they actually face in their real lives, in their marriages, with their sons and daughters, in their businesses, with their team members, because essentially human psychology is human psychology. So it's just contextualizing it within the situation that we're in. So it's highly varied. So whether I'm speaking at a conference or whether I'm doing those intimate workshops through a series of them or whether it's one big sort of thing, it's all very, very flexible depending on the requirements and needs of the company.
Heather Porter
So the idea is that it's a company that comes to you, somebody with a team, and then that's where you're best well-suited is to work in that environment, yeah?
Joe Pane
Yeah, that's about 80-90% of my work. And now that I've got this book, I often get approached for people to work with me one-on-one, but I sort of did that for my first 10 years of my career. Now that I've got this book, at least I can refer them to that as a starter.
Heather Porter
You can, you can. I can see such a need for this because people that are growing a company fast doesn't have a lot of structure. And the team that needs to be along for the ride have to embrace uncertainty. So I can see this huge need for you to step into companies and organizations in a very specific phases of their growth. to really help them. Something else that really struck me when we were having this conversation is the other day I was at a conference, a different one from the one you and I were at, and there was a couple of days of conversation around making an impact in the world and getting over yourself and getting out there. And I had a little round table that I was sitting with and they came up and they were sitting at the table and I said, how are you feeling about taking the next steps in your business and being braver and getting out there and kind of using some of the language that was used. And they said to me, I do feel inspired. I feel like really inspired, but I'm just, I just don't know if I can do it. And there's this like common sort of theme amongst people. The inspiration is powerful and is out there. It's on social media feeds, it's everywhere. But there's this sort of wall that puts his head up and goes, hold on. You got to break through me first. And I think that what you are offering is that sort of path, the steps to go from so much this inspiration that's floating around out there to actually know how to take it and do something with it.
Joe Pane
Am I right? It's completely, what you're describing is completely normal, Heather. And the reason why people feel that way is because their levels of self-trust are really, really low. And that's normal. That's normal across the board. And the irony is, as nature shows us, nature only thrives when it's moving. through movement. Like a tree moves with the wind. If something doesn't move, it dies. If you don't move, take some kind of step or action, your dream will die, your skills will die. Everything will eventually just fritter away. So the way to build self-trust is ironically to move, to go out there and build these reference points of experience where your self-trust, self-worth, self-respect and self-love begin to build. And I was saying to a team of 25 salespeople just last week in a workshop, two weeks ago in a workshop here on Zoom. I said, the reason why results are really inconsistent, not just like that, but really inconsistent is because you have low levels of self-trust, which I made it very clear is completely normal. And as you build your experience and your wisdom and you learn from your mistakes and all those wonderful things, is your self-trust will start to go up. That matters a lot. Heather, if I could just extend on what you asked me just a few minutes ago about who I work with. The other thing that we launched in February of 2022, so it's reasonably new, and this is for coaches and consultants and individual solopreneurs as they call them. is we've got the Emotional Fitness Formula Program, which we only launch three times a year. Well, this year we've only launched it twice because we ran out of time. We only launch it generally, it's only been launched five times since February of 2022, and we're launching it again in February of 2024. And this is for coaches, consultants, and mentors where they can use the emotional fitness formula as a plug-in to their business coaching or their leadership coaching. So they've got the emotional component as well.
Heather Porter
Got it. Guys, by the time this episode, you're listening to this, this is coming up around the corner. This is perfect timing. So if they want to sign up for that, where do they go?
Joe Pane
They can go on JoeParnett.com.au when the launch is close to happening. Well, actually, this is what they can do, Heather. They can go to JoeParnett.com.au. If they download my Emotional Fitness magazine, it's a free digital download, they will then receive emails of when the next, we call it EFF, the Emotional Fitness Formula, the next EFF launch, they will be notified if they download the magazine because then they'll be obviously on my database and they will get that notification that we've got the launch coming up. And it's wonderful because they get to come to a handful of free trainings to test it out, to see if it resonates genuinely with them. And then we continue the journey from there.
Heather Porter
Excellent. We definitely have some coaches and consultants that listen to the show. So guys, you know who you are. Go check it out. There's a comment that you said that I kind of like to wrap up with. You said very quickly, and I wanted to dig it back out. Correct me if I'm wrong in how I put this, but prior to talking to your book, you're talking about five steps. One of them was something along the lines of, you need to train others how to love you. Was that what you said?
Joe Pane
Whether we're aware of it or whether we're not, we're continually teaching others how to treat us. I'll give an example of what this actually means. For example, Heather, if someone crosses a line with you and says something inappropriate to you, If you don't say anything or do anything about that, you've just taught that person that it's okay to treat you that way. Or on the other hand, same situation, but this time Heather comes forward and says, hey, that was inappropriate. I would like for you not to do that again. Just gently like that. That person learns from that moment. If they're mature enough, they will learn and not do it again. You've just taught them how to treat you. We're doing this all the time with how we speak to people, our courtesy, our kindness, our compassion or lack of it. our appreciation of people. We're always teaching people how to treat us and our life is very much echoed through others in terms of who we're being and how we're teaching people to treat us.
Heather Porter
I had a feeling that's where that was going to go. And I think it was a really great reminder for others that are struggling because I was when I'm talking to so many people that are in a state of growth and overwhelm, they oftentimes forget they have a choice and oftentimes can be very reactive. So I'm glad that you reminded us of that. And as we start to wrap up our conversation, are there any last thoughts or words of wisdom that you would like to share with the listeners?
Joe Pane
Oh, my Lord, what can I say to wrap up? So near-death experience research in multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple case studies show that what matters most is what I mentioned at the beginning of this chat, which is all that matters really at the end of the day is how well you have loved and how well you have allowed yourself to receive the love of others. That's what matters the most. And the essence of Courage to Be You is about being transparent in the sense of if you want to say something to someone that is a good thing, say it. Say it. Because how you treat others is so important. It's within our power, you know, choosing how to treat others. And I think the attitude of contribution we can carry with us everywhere, even in a supermarket aisle. You might be walking down a supermarket aisle, strangers walking out of the way, the attitude of contribution is just acknowledging their existence, giving them a smile, hey, how you doing? And you just keep walking your way. You just had a two-second relationship with that person, it's over, but you don't know what difference you've made to that person because smiling changes one's state.
Heather Porter
I know that's a bit of a long wrap up there, but that's... No, it's perfect. Thank you. That was a really beautiful end to the conversation. So thank you for sharing that. And thank you so much for having this chat with me. And I can see why you're an extraordinary speaker. I mean, I've known you to be, but yeah, you just have such great way and manner of explaining things in a simplistic form that we can all relate to. So thank you for being here and sharing that.
Joe Pane
Thank you so much, Heather. You're a beautiful woman and I appreciate you having me here with your beautiful people. Thank you.
