Episode 172 Transcript
Heather Porter (00:01.145)
Megan, thank you so, so, so much for being here. I am really excited for our conversation that's about to come.
Megan Dalla-Camina (00:08.344)
Thank you, thanks for having me. I'm super excited as well.
Heather Porter (00:11.851)
cause you said earlier, what you do with the show, hustle rebellion is right up your alley with what you do. And I purposely did not ask you more about that because I wanted to hit record so we can have a conversation, but we are, we're going to talk about you and all the amazing things you're doing in this world. But first, I actually want to start with a couple of tangible takeaways, specifically with you and your business. So as you're growing your business through more challenging times, what are a few?
tactical things that you do to stay grounded and go away from the burnout mode.
Megan Dalla-Camina (00:45.378)
Yeah, it's such a big question. We could literally just talk about that. I'm sure for the whole podcast. So for me, it's really about number one, I just want to acknowledge how hard that is to do, right? Like as as business owners, I think it's not the glossy Instagram that we say of, it's just so easy. It's not easy. And it's not it's not easy to not hustle when you are driving revenue, whether you're in a leadership role or you're in your own business. So let's just
Heather Porter (00:46.971)
I know.
Heather Porter (01:00.005)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (01:15.406)
be real about it. For me, some things I try to do is to stay very grounded and locked into my vision and purpose. Like, why am I here? Who am I serving? What am I doing this for? Is always number one. And again, like you can lose sight of that when you're in the 500,000 things that that you're trying to do every day. So always coming back to that anchor. Do less.
Heather Porter (01:25.626)
Yep.
Heather Porter (01:36.068)
No.
Megan Dalla-Camina (01:43.937)
is another one that I've always struggled with, but I'm really laser focused on. So that means for me, focusing on the things that really matter and letting go of a lot of the peripheral things that we think are going to really make a difference. But if we just did these three things that we would, you know, really make such an impact for the people that we're here to serve.
Heather Porter (02:11.118)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (02:11.586)
And then the third thing really practically for me again is like my wellbeing, my spiritual practise, my mental wellbeing, and that is absolutely non-negotiable to have my daily practises and things that I do to be very anchored and grounded in those. Yeah.
Heather Porter (02:34.554)
That's a common theme that is coming up more and more from people is this, I don't really want to say self care, but it is right. It's how, how do you ground yourself? Um, whether I'm hearing time and time again, it's literally going out in nature or breathing or meditation or everyone does it a little bit differently, but it's interesting that it's more discussed. So I want to ask you, if you're okay to share, what do you do? What do you do for yourself?
Megan Dalla-Camina (02:57.646)
Yes. So I do a few things. I like to walk in nature. So yeah, perfect. So for me, that's typically an early morning walk on the beach. Like I live, I'm very lucky to live near the beach. So early morning, preferably just before sunrise, because I love to see the sun come up. So that's a great anchoring practice for me. Very big on meditation.
Heather Porter (03:04.59)
There you go, perfect.
Heather Porter (03:15.99)
yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (03:28.046)
and had a long time, decades long meditator. you know, that practice for me, and I do a lot of other combined spiritual practices, all part of Himalayan yogic tradition. you know, yoga asana, but Kriya yoga, breath work, pranayama, japa, mantra. So a whole, you know, a whole group of practices that I do on a daily basis.
Heather Porter (03:40.045)
Okay.
Megan Dalla-Camina (03:56.846)
Again, non-negotiable has to happen, just part of what I do for myself.
Heather Porter (04:03.195)
Do you need to schedule that in or is it just a given, you know when to do it?
Megan Dalla-Camina (04:09.524)
It needs to be scheduled in because otherwise, you know, where does the day I like to try and bookend the days so I will unless I have an early morning call, which is rare, but you know, occasionally I will have a morning call. I will do my walk and you know, meditation and everything at the beach in the morning and then I will do my deeper practice in the evening, usually at 830 PM and I'll sit down often with my teacher and a small group.
Heather Porter (04:11.472)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (04:32.379)
Okay.
Megan Dalla-Camina (04:37.432)
that I work with and we will do our satana practice together or I'll do it on my own if we're not in session.
Heather Porter (04:40.975)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (04:45.027)
I love that this is non-negotiable, but so good. Now I want to talk about what you're up to because you're up to a lot of really amazing things. You've different businesses, book, everything. let's, before we get to what you're doing now, what you used to do, what's your journey been like?
Megan Dalla-Camina (05:04.824)
So I had an 18 year corporate career. I've been in my own business for 13, just coming up on 13 years. It'll be 13 years this August, which feels like a lifetime. It feels like there was nothing before that. I'm sure many people can relate to that, but I had an 18 year corporate career. So I worked for companies like IBM GE in the electronic commerce business, PWC in their consulting business here in Australia, in Asia and in the US.
Heather Porter (05:07.696)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (05:13.092)
Okay.
Heather Porter (05:27.993)
Wow. Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (05:34.824)
So yeah, like that was a very big part of my journey. Before that, I worked in small business, medium business, the music industry. I was a music producer and engineer. Before that, I was an actress my whole life, the whole first third of my life coming through. I was in the performing arts. So a very mixed bag. But that 18 years in corporate really
Heather Porter (05:56.879)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (06:06.821)
shaped so much of who I was and so much of what I had to unlearn to do the work that I'm now currently doing.
Heather Porter (06:16.795)
So let's talk about that a little bit. now you, yeah, there's two things I want to go here. But first of all, let's talk about what you're doing now. So you are CEO of Women Rising and what drew you to create that?
Megan Dalla-Camina (06:25.548)
Yes.
Megan Dalla-Camina (06:31.992)
So yeah, so now just so everyone, we're all on the same page. So I'm the founder and CEO of Women Rising. We're six years old. So we're an education and empowerment company, essentially, primarily focused on women, but we also do a lot of work with male allies. So, you know, the whole mission of our company is to help women rise and to...
Heather Porter (06:35.609)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (06:56.494)
look at all of the avenues in which we can do that. And we're out, you know, our audience is professional women. So those women who are working for other people who are in corporates in government, not for profit, small and medium sized business. And the signature thing that we do is our women rising program for month fully virtual program that's in 65 countries. So that's, you know, what what we're really focusing on there. I'm also an author and, you know, writer and, you know,
everything that comes along with that. But I started my business nearly 13 years ago, as I said, when I was looking around corporate, never thought I never wanted to start a business. I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. I thought I would be a corporate person for my entire career. You know, I like I loved it until I didn't love it. And
Heather Porter (07:39.842)
Okay, interesting.
Heather Porter (07:47.483)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (07:52.222)
you know, I had a major burnout seven years before I left my corporate career, which was really that, you know, many of us have that sort of moment where we look around and go like, is this it? Is like, is this all there is? Because if this is all there is, then I have to do it a different way because this isn't working for me. I was a single mother. I was trying to do my first master's degree because I never finished my undergrad and thought like I needed that piece of paper.
and literally worked myself into illness. And I was director of marketing at that stage, gave up my director of marketing job and literally walked into my CEO's office one day and said, I'm done. Like, I can't do this for one more second. And after I'd recovered from that burnout, I became a four day a week executive for seven years as head of strategy. I was doing a lot of work around women, gender diversity, women's leadership. And that's when I started to look around and
Heather Porter (08:20.591)
Okay.
Heather Porter (08:36.155)
Mm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (08:50.444)
just look for what is my next role. This is about five years before I left and there was no next job. And it was the first time in my career I really had that, well, if there's no next job, what am I gonna do? And that's when I started to sort of think about, well, if I could do anything, what would I do? Well, I'd go and work with women and support women and...
Heather Porter (08:53.115)
Mm.
Heather Porter (09:04.122)
Mmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (09:18.478)
try and crack this code around women's leadership. So that's what led me down the path, scary path of starting my own company.
Heather Porter (09:22.073)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (09:26.619)
Very brave. And you said something earlier in passing. said I had to also unlearn a lot of things. What did you mean by that comment?
Megan Dalla-Camina (09:33.624)
Mm.
yeah, another big one, right? So, and again, didn't really realise this until much quite far into my entrepreneurial journey. I had to unlearn everything patriarchy teaches women on what it means to be successful, on what it means to be a leader, on what it means to
Heather Porter (09:40.293)
Haha.
Megan Dalla-Camina (10:06.168)
have it all, have the career, have the child, be able to manage both sides of that equation. And I had to unlearn everything society teaches women about gender norms and that there is another way of being in the world, there's another way of being in leadership, in business, in your life, in your body.
Heather Porter (10:23.535)
Yes.
Megan Dalla-Camina (10:35.438)
other than what patriarchy has taught us as women. And that's why I wrote the Women Rising book because I was really still grappling with, even though I've been teaching this work for, you know, a decade and a half more, there was still something I couldn't quite put my finger on. And that turned into the paradoxes of power that I write about around how we unhook.
Heather Porter (10:41.486)
Okay.
Megan Dalla-Camina (11:01.742)
from these paradoxes, like the leadership paradox, we want you to lead, but don't lead like that. Lead like this, like it's always been done. In the confidence paradox, be confident, but don't be too confident, because we're going to cut you down. And there's others. So yeah, there's a lot of unlearning. I feel like we all need to do all genders, but particularly for us as women.
Heather Porter (11:06.959)
Hmm. Hmm.
Heather Porter (11:14.383)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (11:23.073)
And once we start to unlearn what's possible, what is leadership, good leadership look like in your definition?
Megan Dalla-Camina (11:33.882)
I think good leadership is human leadership. And certainly when I was coming through my career, my corporate career, that wasn't it. know, leadership was very masculine, irrespective of the gender of the leader. It was obviously very male, which we still see today in terms of the data around leadership. And very much what the research
calls masculine traits, dominant, aggressive, authoritative, short-term planning over long-term vision. And these more feminine traits, which exist in all of us, funerability, empathy, intuition, creativity, collaboration, had no place in leadership. And so for me, when I...
teach and talk and write and think about leadership now. It is this human model of leadership where we have this beautiful integration of all of these traits. Of course, right? Like it sounds so obvious, but we're, we are collectively seeing this new path being crafted of what that actually looks like in practice rather than just what we talk about and see in the research.
Heather Porter (12:36.442)
Mm.
Heather Porter (12:51.867)
You have, you mentioned as well that you have, like a male allies initiative that you work on. And I'm curious to know more about, about that. How does that side of your business work?
Megan Dalla-Camina (13:06.274)
Yeah, look, for so long, anything to do with women and gender diversity equality, women's leadership was women talking to women about.
Heather Porter (13:15.257)
Yeah, very true. Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (13:16.524)
Right. And I saw that all through my corporate career until the in Australia, this initiative called the Male Champions of Change started in 2010 with the then Human Rights Commissioner, which I was involved in when I was at IBM, right at the right at the outset. It's now called the Change Champions Coalition. They've taken male out of it to be more inclusive. But that was the first time that we really started to look at where are the men in this conversation?
and it was very much the CEO. The work that we're doing at Women Rising is through our male allies program, which is we want to get down through the organizations to the leaders, to the middle managers and to every man that we can get to, to teach them and coach them and support them on how to go from being a good guy, someone with good intentions, to being a true active male ally and advocate.
someone who understands what allyship is, who knows their role and who is active in supporting, sponsoring, advocating for women in the workplace and also in their personal life. And, you know, we get asked and told by so many men and it comes through really clearly in the data that
Heather Porter (14:32.315)
Mmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (14:42.806)
A lot of men, 78 % of men say, I want to be part of the solution. I don't know what to do. I'm scared of doing the wrong thing. I don't want to get cancelled. You know, I don't want to get in trouble. Like, show me, show me and help me to know how to step forward into this role. So that's the work that we're doing alongside the work that we're doing with women.
Heather Porter (15:04.943)
Beautiful. So for our male listeners, what could they do? So if you could offer them a couple of starting points to help, what could they do?
Megan Dalla-Camina (15:12.13)
Yeah.
So the first thing is to realize what allyship actually is because for the thousands of men that we've had do this work with us, 90 % of them come in thinking that they're allies. And what they realize after doing the first session, the first lesson and the first coaching call that we all do together with their peer group is, I'm a good guy. Like I wanna do the right thing. I wanna help women. I want to, yeah, be a leader.
Heather Porter (15:27.492)
Uh-huh.
Heather Porter (15:44.41)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (15:46.072)
but I'm either on the sidelines, I'm really apathetic about it when I thought I was in it, and I don't have the tools, like I don't actually know what my role is in this. So that's the first step, is to really take a very close look at how you are advocating for women. When you're in a meeting,
Heather Porter (16:03.739)
Mm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (16:14.676)
and a woman gets interrupted, do you call it out? When a woman gets talked over, do you say, Mary wasn't finished? I'd like to hear what she said. When a woman's idea gets attributed to a man, which happens all of the time, are you the man in the room that says, thanks for raising that John, that initiated from Sue, Sue, what else would you like to say about that? Like there's very small but active roles that men can play.
You know, whose name are you raising when she's not in the room for that project or that promotion or that pay rise? These are all acts of advocacy. And something that also comes up with men is in their personal life, who are you being as a male ally? You know, if you're out walking and it's just gotten dark and there's a woman walking in front of you.
Heather Porter (16:52.367)
Mmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (17:10.744)
Do you cross the road so that she knows that she's not being threatened because there's a man walking behind her and it's dark on the street? It's all of these things that for so many men, for so many women as well, by the way, are unnamed and unrecognized. So part of our work is to name them, to recognize them and then to, in a very inclusive way and supportive way,
Heather Porter (17:16.557)
Yes, yes.
Megan Dalla-Camina (17:38.626)
be on that journey with men versus men thinking that women think that they're the problem and that we're against each other in this when really we just want to walk together because it creates a better place and a better world and a better world of work for everybody.
Heather Porter (17:56.156)
some really great actual strategies that people can can do and I want to flip it now for women so a lot of our listeners are women and what can we do to help each other?
Megan Dalla-Camina (18:09.39)
which is generally.
Heather Porter (18:11.099)
I would say in leadership and becoming better business owners in the world because there's two camps that I see. This is what I see at least. There's the women that are out there empowering other women and genuinely mean it and are working towards making that happen. And then there's the women that say it, but don't do it. So what are some actual things that you see are needed for women to help other women in the world?
Megan Dalla-Camina (18:29.966)
Hmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (18:37.9)
Yeah, just another small question. I love that. So like this gets right to the core of patriarchy, right? This gets right to the core of this wound that so many of us carry as women where there's only place for one that we've been taught, right? There's one seat. There's one seat at the table.
Heather Porter (18:40.443)
Of course.
Heather Porter (18:58.114)
Yes. so true.
Megan Dalla-Camina (19:02.274)
There's one business that can be in an industry and if there's another woman doing it, guess what? You're out. And this is how we have been raised. This is what we have been taught. So the first thing for us as women is to start dismantling that narrative because it's not true. And to really heal that wound, that patriarchal wound that we have,
Heather Porter (19:08.847)
So true.
Megan Dalla-Camina (19:30.434)
because the patriarchy is external to us, but it's also internal to us. We internalize all of those messages and that narrative and it becomes our inner critic voice. And our inner critic voice is what, you know, is that wound that makes us say or look like I'm helping you, but really I'm over here saying X, Y and Z about you, right? Or I'm undermining you.
Heather Porter (19:54.615)
Yes, that.
Megan Dalla-Camina (19:58.166)
or I'm following you on social media, but I'll never like one of your posts. I'm just going to lurk in the background. All of these things that happen, particularly for business owners, right? Like we see this all the time and then, your words end up on their website, but in a different way. Like this is all the wound. This is all the feminine wound. So that's the healing. Cause we can talk about all the things on the surface and we can all women empowering women and women supporting women and all.
Heather Porter (20:05.102)
yeah.
Heather Porter (20:16.827)
Yes.
Megan Dalla-Camina (20:26.058)
until we do our own work, which then ripples out into the collective work, we're never going to get past that. And we're just going to be having surface level conversations that, well, know, women supporting women, hashtag. Yeah. And it doesn't get us anywhere because we're just feeding, we're just feeding that place inside of us that is deeply wounded.
Heather Porter (20:42.364)
It's so true.
Megan Dalla-Camina (20:55.222)
So yeah, it's not a small answer. It's not a flippant, well, we just need to do more of this. There are those things. Share, recognise, comment, be visible. If you like someone's work, say that you like someone's work. Don't be the lurker in the background. There's all of those things that we can do. But we really need to look at ourselves. And we need to look at our shadow and say, I just saw...
Heather Porter (21:01.212)
Mm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (21:24.63)
that, you know, Barbara's doing that and I felt like this real sense of envy, let me go and do my work and let me go and look at what is that that I need to work on rather than just, you know, doing whatever we might do to hide from, you know, from that deeper work. That's how we'll get there.
Heather Porter (21:45.181)
Those are actually really two great points. Be visible. I like that you're saying that, know, speak out and compliment and rather than lurk, it's huge. And also work on yourself. I mean, I actually feel like, yes, it sounds huge, but it's actually simpler than the way you've described it is a simple first step. So I appreciate that. You know, Megan, it's interesting having this conversation. I haven't thought about this memory in a while, but
Megan Dalla-Camina (22:06.082)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (22:12.366)
My old business had a business partner who was male and I call it naivety or wishful thinking or whatever. I never thought, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm, not treated differently. Andrew and I are treated the same. Absolutely. Until our business started to grow. And then whenever we got, you know, requests to be on a podcast or speaking engagement, they always went to him and little did they know I was the one that built the company and brought in all the business.
Megan Dalla-Camina (22:34.446)
Mmm.
Heather Porter (22:40.13)
So that was the first wake up call for me. was like, okay, number one, I saw it. I started to see the difference. And then number two, as I grew to be more successful, felt the, the, the tough toxicity from other women, which I found difficult, jealousy and weird things. So having this conversation with you has been, it's quite a, it's a good memory of what happens, I think, when you are rising up as a leader.
Megan Dalla-Camina (22:55.608)
Mm, yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (23:04.78)
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And it's also for us, like it's consciousness, right? So it's also for us recognizing there really is space for everybody. Like there really is. And if we have that abundance mindset and that what is for us won't pass us by and that there's room for you and me and everybody else.
Heather Porter (23:14.597)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (23:20.475)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (23:34.4)
then that also is a much nicer energy and a much more generous energy to sit in than, you know, than, well, she's doing it so I can't do it. You know, there's space for her, so there's not space for me. And that energetic work that we get to do as well.
Heather Porter (23:47.856)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, yes. So changing gears a little bit, think about yourself from a year ago. Would there be something that you would tell yourself, you know, that's going to happen in the future? Hey, Megan, don't do this. Don't do this over the next year.
Megan Dalla-Camina (24:14.016)
A year ago. Yeah, I probably would have said what I say to myself most years is don't take on too much. Like don't take on too much. And and don't hustle like don't hustle. And particularly in this last year, I had so much you know, I launched a new book, started my PhD, scaling our company, like just
Heather Porter (24:15.29)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (24:19.993)
You
Heather Porter (24:41.252)
Ugh.
Megan Dalla-Camina (24:42.592)
you know, family things going on that have required a lot of my love and attention first before everything else. And it's not necessarily that I wouldn't have done those things because they had to happen in the time that they happened. But I certainly could have taken away other things like where we started this conversation.
Heather Porter (25:02.235)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (25:08.674)
there certainly would have been peripheral things that I would have said, stop, stop, stop, stop. And we've just gone through that exercise in my business right now. You know, I spent, I had nearly four weeks in Europe, came back, I was on a very deep pilgrimage over there and came back and you just see things so differently. And I just went, we're not doing that, we're not doing that, we're not doing that. And my team are like, who are you? And I was just like, I want simplicity. I want
We're still scaling, but I want less, less of the things that really don't matter that much and more focus on the things that really mean everything. So that's an ongoing journey for us and for me personally.
Heather Porter (25:54.471)
How did you know what those things were? The things you said no to when you got back from being overseas?
Megan Dalla-Camina (25:59.83)
Yeah, such a great question. I intuitively knew it very well. I do a lot of work and research around feminine wisdom and how as women we really tap into and lock into that. And there were things that on paper made complete sense. And from a business, if you're sitting down with a business, I used to be a business strategist, a business strategist, they would say, yes, you absolutely need to do this.
Heather Porter (26:04.134)
Like, yeah.
Heather Porter (26:27.836)
Hmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (26:28.502)
and for revenue and showing up the business and all of the things that we talk about, they were the right thing. But I knew, as soon as I came, I knew before I went, but I wasn't ready to declare. And as soon as I came back and looked at my calendar for the next six months and really gave myself permission to feel into my body, how do I feel looking at the workload that's required to do these things?
Heather Porter (26:36.412)
Okay.
Megan Dalla-Camina (26:58.444)
I just intuitively knew, instantly knew, no. Then the next step is do I have the courage to back that intuition?
And that's a process and that's what I did. So a massive thing came off the table and a whole lot of small things came off as well to create space for what I know is the next evolution of the work, my work.
Heather Porter (27:26.246)
Did the intuition in you conflict with the strategist in you?
Megan Dalla-Camina (27:31.714)
Yes, yes, absolutely. As it often does, right? Like we get these messages, we get these nudges from our feminine wisdom, from our intuition that want to lead us in the path that we are ultimately meant to go. And yet the strategist or the revenue, you know, the CFO in us, no, no, no, you have to do this because then this and this and this. And I feel like
Heather Porter (27:36.25)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (27:53.222)
Yeah.
Megan Dalla-Camina (28:00.45)
particularly for business owners, that's where we get into the hustle. That's where we don't trust ourselves and where we make ungrounded decisions that will ultimately lead us into a place of striving and driving and burnout. Because our intuition, no, like we know, we know we have to learn to trust and then to act on those
Heather Porter (28:06.204)
That's right.
Heather Porter (28:19.356)
Mm.
Heather Porter (28:27.76)
Mm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (28:29.036)
on that guidance that we get given.
Heather Porter (28:32.326)
to act is the key. love that you said that. So one last question before we start to wrap up and that is what is the future of women in business and leadership look like to you?
Megan Dalla-Camina (28:50.094)
It looks to me like more and more women awakening to the power that is inside of them.
Heather Porter (28:59.182)
Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (29:00.774)
And that to me is the rising. Like it starts, we've been trying to fix the system for decades and decades and decades and decades. And the reason I'm so focused on helping women rise and doing the inner work and the self leadership is because that's what unlocks the key to the external power. That's what unlocks it. And so like the leadership that I teach is an external leadership, it's self leadership.
Heather Porter (29:03.918)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (29:30.716)
Mmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (29:31.422)
and all of this work around feminine wisdom and knowing your truth and trusting your truth and acting on your truth.
that to me, whether you're in your own business, whether you're a leader in somebody else's business, that's what's gonna help us all rise up and really dismantle the patriarchal structures that don't serve anybody.
Heather Porter (29:47.74)
Mm.
Heather Porter (29:54.908)
So good So how do people get involved with all the different facets of what you do? Where do they go? How you know, who are they? Tell me more
Megan Dalla-Camina (30:05.966)
so I would start at megandellacamina.com. That's really my home base. I'm at megandellacamina on all social media. and for that more leadership side, womenrisingco.com is for everything to do with women's leadership, male allyship, women rising book. And yeah, they're, they're the places I hang out. I would love to connect with people.
Heather Porter (30:10.074)
Great. Okay.
Heather Porter (30:33.552)
You guys need to connect. All right. So obviously in the show notes, all the links to all the places, please go check her out. and as we wrap up, is there one last thought or word of wisdom that you'd like to leave our listeners with?
Megan Dalla-Camina (30:50.52)
Hmm.
Megan Dalla-Camina (30:54.666)
I would just say, and we've talked about it, do your inner work to really get to understand your truth. What is true for you in this season of your life and your career and your leadership in your business that you are currently in? What is true for you? And the more we can listen to that and ground into that and trust that and act on that, that's where the magic happens.
Heather Porter (31:23.133)
Perfect way to end. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.
Megan Dalla-Camina (31:24.92)
Thank you so much.
