Episode 162 Transcript
Heather Porter (00:01.053)
Chris, welcome to the Hustle Rebellion. How are you?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (00:04.276)
great. How are you doing?
Heather Porter (00:06.459)
I'm good. I'm good. We're going to have a really cool little chat because you literally just said you were speaking to someone about this exact topic. So I will probably extract what you were saying to that person in a moment. I love to start without going too fluffy at all. I just like to go straight into it. So I'd like to start with some tips from you and then we'll get to know you throughout the conversation as we go. Cause you definitely are an expert in this space. So
what are three tips that you can offer the listeners, whether they're on YouTube or Spotify, what can you offer us on how to grow a business with less of that hustle, culture, grind, and much more balance?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (00:48.494)
Well, I think the it's such a good question. I'm no perfect person at doing this. think I the first tip would be like an acknowledgement of like we're all part of this system that has rewarded hustle and You know, it's how we've kind of grown up, know from school from an early, you know from our early childhood we're taught and we've compared to the measuring stick
Heather Porter (01:18.0)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (01:18.222)
and through to from school through to university or if you go to uni or if you start work earlier on, there's always a measuring stick. So I think just like affording ourselves a little bit of grace that, hey, like there's very few people in the world that have got this figured out and I'm one of them. I'm still falling in the traps too. And then it's okay. And we're all kind of working our way through it. And that's probably the work to be done. I think that we have to prioritize is...
Heather Porter (01:36.23)
Yep.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (01:45.792)
seeing this firstly as like the work to be done and putting yourself first before the tasks. It's sort of that notion of being overdoing and finding a way to recognise that this is important. I've just finished a coaching conversation with an executive in a big corporate organisation. so I'm feeling really fresh and raw about this topic, but...
The second one is looking at your diary. And she was sharing with me that next week they've got an offsite and it's going to be from basically she's gonna be working from six till nine p.m. And then the day after there's back to back meetings. And her goal for her own work was to be more impactful on the work that she wants to do.
Heather Porter (02:23.302)
Mm.
Heather Porter (02:28.474)
Wow, big.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (02:42.626)
And I said, you know, so we just had this really great conversation around, where are you spending your actual time and why you got so many meetings in your diary when you've just said you want to create impactful work? And so I think having a look at where you spend your time, why is there, how are you prioritizing those things and how are you making the most of your schedule is a really just simple practical thing.
Heather Porter (03:08.418)
It's a good point, know, because around the scheduling thing, chat GPT, right? We're all using AI these days. And one thing that I was taught like last year was put your schedule in and ask it.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (03:20.332)
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Heather Porter (03:22.076)
Where to have where to have what should you do to have more time and my big one was hey You have zero buffer time in between your meetings You have zero downtime to actually like you're just literally meeting and then team caller this or that and it's like you actually have to Have like use your schedule in a much different way than you've been using it. So it's interesting you had that chat
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (03:25.326)
I like that, yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (03:31.15)
you
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (03:37.197)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (03:42.574)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. But this is just what we've been conditioned to think like that it's perfectly normal to be running from one thing to another. So I think it's like doing a bit of an energy audit of your work and saying, you know, like, where do you have those buffers? Where are you prioritizing the work that you need to do as a CEO or as a founder? How are you making those things? So one of the tips I give people is start your day with a not a to-do list.
Heather Porter (03:54.596)
Yeah. Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (04:14.338)
but start your day with like a to-be list. Who do you wanna be today? Yeah. Well, I stole this from Cameron Schwab, who was one of the youngest CEOs of Richmond Football Club. I think probably the youngest CEO of Aussie rules footy club. And this concept of who are you in your day versus what are you doing? And so, you know, I write it down every, I try to do it every day. Some days I fall out of the habit, but.
Heather Porter (04:18.338)
Interesting. Okay, tell me more about that. what would you put in that?
Heather Porter (04:43.654)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (04:44.502)
writing down like, all right, on my to-be list today was to feel alive, to feel generous and to feel present. And I think starting with that intentionality in your day is super important. And then the next to that is like, what's the one big thing I have to achieve today? the, I call it an OBT, what's your OBT for the day? And for me, I'm working on my website at the moment. So that's the number one thing I've got on my list is finish that off.
All these other things can be secondary to that sort of one big thing.
Heather Porter (05:18.438)
Well how do you deal with the inevitable random email that comes in, whether it's, want to work with you, or maybe it might be a team member, or an outsourced supplier, whatever, a client. So you have these ideas, these intentions, every day you wake up with. Then how do you deal with the things that will come in and try and derail where you're headed for the day?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (05:34.232)
I
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (05:40.398)
Oh yeah, I mean, it's the cliche of kind of like important versus urgent, right? Like it's a well-known thing, but I think part of the challenge is we all know that lots of people have seen that framework before. There's lots of productivity hacks out there around how to structure your time, how to set up your emails and all those sorts of things. There's two things that I think is recognizing like, why do we then...
Heather Porter (05:47.12)
Yeah
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (06:09.502)
Is distractions a good or bad thing? And for a lot of us, a lot of the productivity tools out there have taught us that those break-ins of time is really the kind of bad thing. And to minimise them, well maybe we just need to accept that they're gonna happen and that there's always gonna be an urgent sort of email that comes in or a client that's not happy with something potentially or a team member that wants to speak to us.
Heather Porter (06:23.686)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (06:38.242)
Maybe we just need to accept that sometimes those things will be there and that we can't solve for all those things and that we don't need to be as efficient on email. And so I think accepting that there's gonna be distractions is probably like the first thing. There's always gonna be those things and can you let those goes? And if you can't, why? Why not? You know, was just having this conversation with the leader and I said, what would be the worst thing if you said no to someone who's asking for your time?
Heather Porter (07:04.976)
Ha.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (07:07.886)
might damage the relationship. And I said, well, do you really know that or is that an assumption that you're running? I really love the immunity to change framework, which is done by Bob Keegan and Lisa Leahy. And the of the model is that you have this idea of you've got this thing you want to improve in your life or in your leadership, but we've got these hidden competing commitments against those goals. And like asking yourself,
Heather Porter (07:32.304)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (07:37.186)
Why do I feel the need to respond to every email that comes in? Can I just accept that sometimes I'm not gonna have an answer for everything? And that someone might be a bit frustrated with me for half an hour while I finish something that's really important. So kind of going beneath just the productivity lens is like, well, why are we struggling with this so much is my question.
Heather Porter (07:58.653)
It's a really good point that I probably could talk to you about for days and days. I just got back yesterday from a two week trip overseas, a birthday trip for myself and I was in Dubai and London and had an amazing time and literally the day, two days before I left, my main head project manager left. So it was her last day and everything was just like chaos. know, I have lots of clients and lots of projects and the main pivotal point on my
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (08:21.015)
Right.
Heather Porter (08:28.636)
team she left for another amazing opportunity. So it wasn't like a bad thing. I remember thinking I had to do a lot of work in my brain when I was overseas going, this is a moment in time that I have scheduled that I want this trip. I have to be okay with letting some people down or and they might not even be letting them down in the first place, like you said. But I had to change how I was thinking day to day and so could only work one hour a day. But I'm glad you brought that up because it's an ongoing
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (08:41.068)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (08:50.432)
Yeah.
You're right.
Heather Porter (08:58.536)
knowing self conversation.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (08:59.318)
Yeah. mate, I think that's massive. Heather, I think that, you know, perhaps the what that sort of sparked for me is like this hero mentality that we kind of do have about ourselves. And look, my association with burnout was that I was working in a corporate business in a senior role, and work nearly killed me. And I
Heather Porter (09:09.334)
Yeah. Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (09:26.732)
had been having chest pain, like I had been working and struggling, you know, just grinding through and hustling. And I had chest pain that was coming up and I was putting it off. And I wasn't going to the doctor, I didn't want to do anything about it. I had a big presentation coming up in the amongst getting this chest pain. I had a 200 person leadership conference, I was pulling together and designing and delivering part of it. And
Heather Porter (09:33.411)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (09:39.908)
Interesting.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (09:56.332)
I had this chest pain while that was happening and I just kind of was grinding and hustling my way through it and just completely ignored the symptoms. And it turns out a few weeks later I eventually did do something about it because it got worse. I couldn't even walk up the street anymore and I thought, okay, this is now a signal that my body is trying to tell me something. And I went and yeah, and I had a blocked artery in my heart so I had to have...
have a procedure and it's all good now. But I've had to make massive changes, not only in how I work, but it changes in my mindset. I think one of the big ones that I've realised is, and I think this is particularly true when I talk to founders, is there's almost like, we think that we have so much to give and our mission and the quest is like so important. But what's that mentality really costing us? know, what's that?
attitude that we see ourselves as so important that we can't take a week off, you know, and enjoy it. We've got all these things there. Like it's almost this hero mentality. And I saw that really in myself in that mode. I was like, this is so important that no one else can host this conference. Like, there's plenty of other good people around that could do it. I could take some time off. But in my mind, I'd convinced myself that I was such an important part of the, you know, and that was largely my ego.
Heather Porter (11:09.722)
Heh.
Heather Porter (11:23.395)
Yeah. Yeah.
I want to talk a little bit about your journey in your business and what you do because you work with truly phenomenal leaders. You've sort of subtly mentioned that you actually sent over in an email to me that you led a four day work week rollout specifically for Medibank here in Australia. That's like piggybacking off of what we're talking about mindset and you know, being the hero and you got to work and we've got to stay on top of things and why would we be cutting back?
our work hours. How? Like talk to me about what you first of all what do you do? What do you do in your business and how you work with people? Then I want to know more about that four day work week rollout.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (11:56.899)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (12:06.91)
Yeah, awesome. Well, I guess in terms of the I call myself like an executive coach or cultural architect with the two kind of hats I wear now in the consulting world that I'm doing. So there's three pillars of my business. One is executive coaching, and I call it more coaching transformation work. So where I help people design experiments to change how they they are at work and how they lead.
The second one is I do team, what I would call team accountability practices. So how do we really use accountability as a tool for driving performance? And then the third part, more touches into the ways of working is how do we design workplaces to be like a calm performance? Almost like these two ideas of yes, it's about getting things done, but we want to do it in a way that is calm and energetic.
Heather Porter (12:45.497)
Okay, amazing.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (13:05.229)
So how do we look at the things that you're setting up in your business, the way of working to structure around?
Heather Porter (13:14.319)
Nice.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (13:14.988)
Yeah, so there's a three three pillars of my business. So what was your second question was around around the full day.
Heather Porter (13:21.819)
Oh, the four day, yeah, because that's huge. Like, I feel like that is such an interesting case study. It may or may not be the best thing you've ever done, but for me, it...
It comes at me big because I'm going, okay, first of all, you have to convince not only the leadership team, but then how are they going to roll it out to their team? It's anti everything that people stand for and work in the Western world. mean, yeah, there's the four hour work week from Tim Ferriss, but that that's kind of pie in the sky. Oh yeah. Like lifestyle, entrepreneurship book, right? But how do you actually do this with real people?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (13:48.098)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (13:55.79)
Yeah, it was an amazing experience having the opportunity to do that work. I think the first thing is that what really helped get that change through was disrupting the mindsets around what people thought about work. So you can't just, in a big corporate, you couldn't just roll something like that out without having a broader strategy of what you're trying to do.
And at Medibank, they had this goal of being the healthiest workplace in Australia. But they didn't really have a plan to do that. So that was my opportunities to take the reins, if you like, of trying to craft a plan around how we did that. But we didn't start talking about four-day work week straight away. That took us 18 months to kind of get ready to be able to do that.
Heather Porter (14:26.223)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (14:54.242)
massive cyber incident that also took place. And so the strategy was, let's start talking to our team about what if work didn't feel like work? And what would it look like? And we got them to design their ideal perfect average day. And we worked with an amazing guy called Michael Dixon, who really helped us do that discovery and really understand what people were after. And through that process, we got all this data about
Heather Porter (14:56.772)
huh. I remember.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (15:22.946)
what was important to our team. And the big theme that came up was time. And I remember sitting in a workshop in Adelaide and hearing this story of someone that worked in one of our retail stores. And she said, you know, I just don't, I've got a young kid and I don't have time to go pick them up from childcare when they're sick or when then, when, because it's gonna cost me and it's gonna be really difficult and challenging.
And so this kind of universal thing of time just came so strongly through all our people and that they were struggling with, know, they weren't asking for big pay rises. They were asking for, you know, time back. And so that really fueled then our plan of how we'd go about trying to create, to challenge that traditional work week.
Heather Porter (16:12.921)
So you ultimately had them tell you, what does this look like? And you really got them starting to come to the table with all of their ideas. Is that, that's essentially how the process started? Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (16:25.39)
Yeah, that's how the process started. Started with the executive group as well. So before we kind of went out to the masses, we started talking to them about, how are we going to create this workplace that's a bit different, that is unique and really what are the patterns and the things that we're doing in the business that are helping us to do that? And that was a really key part of the process was disrupting that leadership group as well.
Heather Porter (16:33.157)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heather Porter (16:51.791)
How do you get people to get out of their own way? know, like for example, when they might be talking to you and going, well, I want this or I, know, this is something that would be amazing, but, I can't do that. We can't do that. Like, how do you get them to get out of their own way?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (17:05.998)
yeah. I think challenging those assumptions. Yeah, well, why couldn't you do that? You know, I had, it's interesting when we talk about four day work week, one or two of the senior people that were a part of that experiment and pilot were sort of saying that they couldn't take the time. They couldn't do a four day work week because, and it's just being prepared to say, well, why not? Why couldn't you? And challenge that assumption.
Heather Porter (17:26.233)
Right.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (17:35.842)
Well, what's stopping you? And importantly, if you're not doing it as the leader, how are you expecting your team to change their ways of working? And it's sort of like, you know, that sort of phrase of like eat your own dog food sort of thing, if you've a product out there in market and you're not leading the way doing it, how do you expect your team to do it? So I think that that's definitely part of it is just holding the mirror up to those assumptions and yeah, like, okay.
Heather Porter (17:43.419)
Hmm.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (18:04.546)
Well, what's the fear that's driving the way that you see yourself in this process and being prepared to do that?
Heather Porter (18:11.472)
Yeah, really cool. All right, I want to talk a little bit about you personally and your business journey in the last year. So what's something that you feel that you have done exceptionally well in the last year?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (18:25.758)
that's a really good question. It's hard because I don't feel like I've done anything exceptionally well yet. I'm still very much growing it. I think perhaps the one thing that I'd say I'd give myself a pass on would be building a more of a presence in the community. And, you know, the fact that we're speaking is a result of that work and getting out externally, having coffees with people.
Heather Porter (18:34.745)
Hmm
Heather Porter (18:45.338)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (18:55.534)
getting the message out on social media about the work, I'd give myself a pass on. So that would probably be one thing. The second thing is getting, I'm really happy with how I've adapted from where I first started the business to where it is now and being really clear on what are my pillars of the business that I'm offering and the services. When I first started, that was really...
Heather Porter (19:03.258)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (19:24.152)
kind of opaque and just talking to people and testing out things has really helped in getting clear on what does the market actually need. When I first started, I was sharing a lot about four day work week and the response was probably not there yet for it and but how could I adapt that into the other work that I'm doing and that seems to have helped.
Heather Porter (19:35.44)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (19:48.476)
Amazing. I like that you said that you give yourself a pass on it rather than exceptionally well, because you just said earlier, challenge the assumptions, right? Challenge that self-talk. I feel like that's huge that you realize that community is important. It is like, it's a common thread theme that I'm hearing from everyone is, it's like, get back out into the real world and meet people and be around people. And it's actually harder than it sounds on paper, right?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (19:58.254)
Thanks.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (20:04.739)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (20:13.56)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (20:18.182)
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's really hard to kind of put yourself out there and keep sharing the same story over and over again with people. But it is, you know, I had a big piece of work with a client. was a three month engagement, sort of in there for three months. And the only reason why I got that work was through LinkedIn. And someone referred me in that they said,
Heather Porter (20:22.341)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (20:42.907)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (20:45.762)
you you've to talk to Chris about this, he's the person to speak to. So it's definitely paid off in that way. And I think you're right, I'm probably being a bit hard on myself. And that's the hero, perhaps the ego still clenching on.
Heather Porter (20:55.139)
You are.
Heather Porter (21:02.519)
I had to, I had to say it because we all do it. We all do it, you know? And, so then I'm going to flip the conversation to a slightly different direction and have you think about the last year of what you've been working on, a year ago. So that would have been June, beginning of winter last year for Southern Hemisphere peeps. What would you have told yourself to do differently for the year ahead?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (21:06.541)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (21:28.43)
Well, to be honest, in June last year, I was still in inside corporate. So, you it was in my role. And so I would have probably told myself to...
Heather Porter (21:34.735)
Yep.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (21:45.772)
To take a step back.
And to really think about taking control of my situation a little bit more. not, you know, I was in a situation where I was sort of going really well, but my role got made redundant. And so I had to really adapt. And I think, you know, when you're inside, you know, this probably be less relevant for like founders and those sorts of things, but perhaps, you know, when you're inside an organization,
Heather Porter (22:06.149)
Right.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (22:18.572)
Sometimes you're just so committed to the work that you're doing and you're just so driven by that and then all of a sudden that goes and you've got to really shift and change really quickly. So I think the thing I would have said would be have a plan B.
Heather Porter (22:36.134)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (22:37.406)
and not just be a solid reliant on one way of seeing your work. I think that's kind of a universal thing. think giving people, if you're setting up teams, you want them to be thinking about their plan B and encouraging them to go out and test the market and thinking about their career. Now, one of the questions I always ask people on my teams that I give this to people I coach,
is to ask your team, like, how is this job helping you with the next step in your career? Like, what's the path that this is helping you on? I think the more honest you can be about where you are and what's your path, the better people are gonna be, they're gonna be more honest with you. But you can also, in myself, I wish I had someone kind of nudging me and sort of pushing me in that way, because I would have had a better platform to kind of then adapt.
Heather Porter (23:34.193)
That's really, good. Hearing that makes me think of sort of how you, your identity gets tied to your work so much, maybe not on purpose. And I remember when I was, you know, an employee and I worked for a company and overnight for interesting reasons for a whole other conversation, but overnight this project, this entire world of mine went.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (23:40.526)
Hmm.
Heather Porter (23:56.695)
And it was, took me a good solid year to get over it. Cause my identity was so wrapped up in that, that I didn't see a plan B. didn't, I wasn't proactive. just was, yeah, I wasn't, I love that you're saying that because I think it does actually work for founders as well, just as much just for human beings that are sort of so tied to like their identity in their work.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (24:05.187)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (24:17.442)
Yeah, absolutely. you know, just having a coaching conversation with this person earlier and, you know, she said, I love my team. You know, I love the work that we're doing. And so so much of us do have that association with like, we do have this love relationship with what we're doing. And it's kind of like testing that out a little bit and all right, but what else is there beyond this sort of phase of your life? What else do you have that's fueling you?
Heather Porter (24:34.651)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (24:47.38)
outside of just the work because I think we do get caught up in an association and identity of who we are in the work.
Heather Porter (24:54.702)
Yeah, so true. What does the future of coaching look like for you and where you're headed?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (25:03.48)
think that's such a good question. I don't really know in some ways. I think I could make some assumptions about AI being a really good tool to use and that may make coaching redundant in some shape or form. But I think the thing that people struggle with is less in the doing and more in the being. So I still see a future where coaching and
Heather Porter (25:07.835)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (25:26.886)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (25:31.416)
perhaps will actually become even more important because some of the tasks that we're doing just get, you know, kind of optimized and the machine does it all. And then, so what are we left with? Well, we're left with the relationships and how you navigate those. And I think that's the dynamic that we kind of play in, we? And so I think the focus for me is probably less in the, do I want to be in two years time with the business?
Heather Porter (25:59.622)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (26:00.876)
and more and how do I make sure that I'm adding value to everyone that I'm kind of coming across as best as I can and seeing, giving it red hot grow with each of those people.
Heather Porter (26:09.948)
Really well said. I think also you're right. The tools are there. They're becoming more and more incredible and interesting to use but the connection between human beings is needed more than ever. So yeah, I agree with you that what you're doing is not going anywhere.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (26:25.08)
Yeah. Well, I think connection is just seems to be like if you're looking at the youth coming in and particularly with, I think it's Gen Z coming through, is that the right? And then Gen Alpha. Okay, so Gen Z is like 30 % of the workforce now, I think. And what they're saying that they want from work is connection and.
Heather Porter (26:32.656)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (26:37.5)
Yeah, think you're right. Yeah, it's hard to keep track, but yeah.
Heather Porter (26:45.105)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (26:50.097)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (26:51.022)
but they want it in a different way. A lot of them are saying they don't want middle management positions in organizations.
and they seek purpose in the work that they're doing. So you're have these really, these hungry people that are connected for connection, know, they're connected in to the tech, but they want meaningful work and they want meaningful relationships. So that's really interesting, I think. That's the demand for how you work is really gonna fuel that generation.
Heather Porter (27:02.938)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (27:22.704)
Yeah, yeah. So as we start to wrap up, Chris, who do you work with? So if you wanted to attract another five amazing individuals to have that working relationship with, who would they be and how do they seek help from you?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (27:40.332)
Yeah, so I work with leaders inside of corporate organizations and founders that are setting up their own businesses and starting to think about their leadership. It's probably not the early ones that have just building something right in the moment, but are starting to think about, maybe we need to hire for like a management team or they're about to kind of go onto that journey and they want to start, they've got a team already in place and they're really wanting to accelerate their leadership.
Heather Porter (28:07.419)
Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (28:10.766)
So they would be probably the two kind of main audiences and I'm starting to do a little bit more work even with smaller businesses like Trady trades trades people that are setting up their businesses and need some support and they're sort of accelerating so it can look really different for I don't I'm agnostic in what industry they work in But that would probably be the two main audiences
Heather Porter (28:26.512)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (28:35.398)
And then where do they go to seek you out? Because you said you're on LinkedIn, which made me happy that you're doing that. Yeah.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (28:36.942)
Yeah, I am. I am on LinkedIn. And you can find me at thrivenation.au is my website. That would be the best place to find me.
Heather Porter (28:49.218)
It's good, Drive Nation has that movement sound to it, I like it. Yeah, really cool. What is one last piece of advice that you'd like to leave people with?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (28:54.19)
Good, thanks.
Heather Porter (29:05.808)
Hmm.
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (29:07.82)
I think do an energy audit. Have a look at your calendar. Where are you spending your time? I think how you spend your time really determines the kind of quality of the time that you get. I think that would be probably the biggest piece of advice to leave people with. It's just a really simple thing to do, but it's a really basic one that will generate a lot of value for people.
Heather Porter (29:31.824)
Don't you think it's sometimes the most simplistic things that actually bring the best change?
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (29:36.398)
Yeah, so true. So true. It's the simple stuff that we need, not all the heavy frameworks and ideas. It's simple.
Heather Porter (29:44.55)
Exactly right. Thank you so much Chris for being here and having this chat with meet myself and our listeners and I love that you're Committed to impact and you help others deliver that and also that you yourself are working on getting yourself out there because more people need these conversations that you're doing
CHRISTIAN MIRAN (30:01.804)
Thanks, I really appreciate you having me on and great to talk to you
Heather Porter (30:05.413)
You too. Thank you.
