Episode 154 Transcript
Heather Porter (00:01.984)
Ahmed, I'm very, happy that you are here. You're actually the first of any, any guests that I've ever done this with. You're in my community. I want to introduce you to my community because your business is doing such amazing things. So welcome to our interview. How are you?
Ahmed (00:18.355)
Thanks Heather, what a privilege to the first. No pressure. But I guess being the first means no benchmark. So I get to set the benchmark. Anything afterwards will be better.
Heather Porter (00:21.87)
No pressure.
Heather Porter (00:27.318)
You do, you do. And this is so good because guys, he's never done a podcast. That's I'm not trying to find podcast experts here. I'm trying to find real business owners just like you guys listening. They're going to help you. And this, this is going to be fun. I'm excited, especially, okay. Any of you that have a product, you need to listen to this conversation. So we're going to start by
your business. Now I know what you do but why don't you tell everyone listening and watching what is the name of your business and what do you guys do.
Ahmed (01:01.719)
Beautiful. So name of the business is BFMCG, spelled B-E-F-M-C-G. And for those who don't know what FMCG is, Fast Moving Consumer Goods, which is an acronym for everything that is a packaged product that goes into retail. So if you go to a Will Wars or Kohl's or any other retailers and you see products on the shelf in a pack, that's FMCG is. So it's packaged consumer goods and the fast moving is just catering for the nature of what these products should be.
You want products on the shelf, but you don't want them staying there for too long.
Heather Porter (01:35.126)
Got it. Brilliant. Okay. So let's talk products. What type of products do you help to get on the shelves?
Ahmed (01:44.243)
When we started as any business, you're in the hustle mode. So you're looking for, you know, like whatever comes in, but we're trying to always add value. And the value add is two sides. One is the product itself. What is the point of difference? What is unique about the product? And how can we help them? And then on the other end is all right, where is an opportunity in the market to position this product? And where we are best positioned and skilled to help such product?
brand, brand owner, business owner. So we're focusing mainly in the packaged foods, but some non-food, but again, mainly in the food and non-food space. yes, consider it your, what is the term called CPG, consumer packaged goods. So that's where we sort of play.
Heather Porter (02:31.758)
Okay, so with foods, any kind of food, like including shake powders?
Ahmed (02:37.557)
Yes, including shakes and powders and we are working with a couple of clients. We're not going to mention names of brands just for confidentiality and obviously respecting them. But yes, we work for example, like health and wellness supplements. We work in drinks, better for you drinks, juices. work in just trying to think as we go through the brands. We as I mentioned, non-food as well. So we do some some shampoo is personal care.
We are also in pet food, helping a couple of brands in the pet food space to get on the market and grow. We also work here and internationally. There's bit of exports happening as well. So we're helping some of the brands with their exports. We working in healthy snacking. We are working in the, you know, like the gummies. We work, what else? Ready to eat meals, chilled, frozen, frozen snacks, pies, a couple of few brands we work with. And we're trying to...
have that sort of nice mix of brands, we set a rule for ourselves as a business, which is we don't do competing businesses. So if I have a brand using your question, an example of protein shakes or protein powders, if I have a brand in that space, I will only work with one brand and it's first in best dress. So if someone else comes in, we'll give them some advice, but we're not gonna represent them. And the reason being simply, there's different philosophies in the market. Some businesses say,
You know what? We will take whatever comes, we'll help them and let the buyer decide what they want to take on the shelf. But we know already that the shelf space is limited. So buyer's times is also limited. And we know that when we go and present to a buyer, most likely they will take one maximum two brands. So we need to do our 100 % for that one brand. And it's our job to influence the buyer. Hey, you need to take this brand because it's the best in its category. It's the best in the market. It has all these unique selling points, blah, blah, blah.
So that's where we've made a decision. We're only gonna focus on non-competing businesses and do everything we can to help them.
Heather Porter (04:42.126)
Smart, means you're a true advocate for the brands you work with. You're really truly committed to those.
Ahmed (04:48.915)
We promote ourselves and market ourselves as an extension of their businesses. So any brand owner or business, we are your sales and marketing arm. We will help you with the back end with your manufacturing, logistics, contract manufacturing. We will help you with the sales. So we need to be a true extension of your business. I cannot be doing that if I'm doing this for three or four other competing businesses, understanding their IP, understanding where they're going and then be...
put in a tough situation where I'm sitting down with a buyer at the retail chain and he's saying, I can only take one brand, which one should I take? So we made a decision from the beginning, we will avoid that at all costs. And then we become true to ourselves, true to the brand and then also true to the buyers.
Heather Porter (05:30.488)
Fantastic. Now I want to talk about where somebody should be in their product development. Do they need to have a product? Does need to have sales? Do they have an idea? Where, who do you help?
Ahmed (05:41.458)
Look, we like to help everyone and everyone has a different space. We work with people who just have an idea to people who are already established, they're already selling in online and a couple of small stores to people who are very well established in their journey or they're dealing with the big guys. So it just depends on the brand, but also depends on also one of the key things as a business and as a team. We sat down together an example of late last year and we said, we want to work with good people.
and we want to work with good companies. We've left corporate and one of the key things about leaving corporate, gives you the opportunity to choose who you work with. So we want to work with people that we enjoy working with. So if I see someone who is driven, who is keen on supporting their brand, who wants to take it to the next level, we would love to help them and work with them. Now, where are they at on their journey? That differs from one to the other. As long as they're there, they're passionate, willing to back up their brands, we're happy to work with them.
Heather Porter (06:40.11)
Cause you mentioned that you even assist with the manufacturing process as well. So it's not just getting them on shelves. You can assist with the whole process.
Ahmed (06:44.686)
And I'll you
We're working with a brand now and again, without mentioning names, they are basically a big marketing company. They have a beautiful brand, very well established, but they don't do their own manufacturing. But they asked us to come and help them create an extension to their current range and new products as well. So we were working with them on doing that. We're working with them on establishing, okay, what are some of the ideas? What is trending in the market? And then these ideas, where can they be made as a team?
We're focusing as well on us internally as a team on adding and hiring the right people who bring the value. So for example, we have our head of a new product development. Her background is truly just new product development. She's worked on the factories, she worked in manufacturing, she worked at one of the biggest retailers. So she understands that full cycle. The GM of our business and myself also we come from the background where we've managed contract manufacturing. So we can...
We have a good idea of who can do what where. So if you have an idea and it's just an idea, we can help you translate this idea into reality and into a package product.
Heather Porter (07:57.089)
Excellent. So are you happy to share a little bit about your backstory? Because you said you come from corporate. You just sort of said you have a background in, you know, product and manufacturing. I want to know more. So before this business started, what did you do?
Ahmed (08:11.448)
Look, my last gig, if I can call it a gig, it was more than that. My last employment was with Woolworths. So I worked for Woolworths for three, almost four years, where I was working with them helping with the procurement of supply chain. So my job was looking after everything supply chain wise. So that's your warehouses, your automation in the warehouses. So if you think the actual shelf at Woolworths and behind, not the products on the shelf, but everything shelf and behind. So logistics, trucks, automation, online, et cetera. I was looking after that.
And that also took me through COVID and toilet papers and all the fun stuff. I'm not going to go there, but anyway, it some scars. But yes, and before that experience, Heather, I've worked as well in pharmaceuticals. I've worked in the FMCG space as well as businesses like Cerabos, which is now Kraft Heinz. I've worked in GSK, GlaxoSmithKline. I've also worked internationally.
And all of my journey has been or most of my journey has been in the procurement and supply chain. So that is a space I'm really passionate about. And that's why when I decided when we set to open this business, one of our key focuses is on the back end. is amazing to have a beautiful idea, creative, disruptive, all these beautiful things. But if you cannot make it right, or if you cannot scale it right, you can have a problem. So the back end.
It is not the most glamorous part of business.
It is not the most, you know, so the back end is not the most glamorous part of the business. It's not the most beautiful. And a lot of people focus more on sales and marketing, but it's not the back end is not done right. You cannot sell rights and you cannot scale your business as well. So we always focus on that. And that's where sort of, guess, my, my, my real passion for is like, okay, show me the factory, show me where things are done. I like to see how that is. So people get surprised. Like, I don't want to go and meet in an office, plenty of offices. We've seen them.
Ahmed (10:08.929)
We want to see the factory. We want to see where the magic is done.
Heather Porter (10:12.174)
I love it. tell me about the, you mentioned World Wars and Coles, the two big boys in grocery in Australia, but what other types of shops can you get products into?
Ahmed (10:24.623)
We look again from we're privileged that we have built very good relationships with obviously you mentioned this the two big boys but even with LD with with the IGA groups with petrol station inconvenience like on the run 7-eleven ample petrol stations we're working even with the know pharmacy chains chemist warehouse priceline we're working supporting with the online even though the online is obviously
Heather Porter (10:38.798)
Wow.
Ahmed (10:51.817)
you will see it as the company or the brand's own website. But there's a lot of work happening in the online space now where we get into the marketplaces of many companies. Woolworths have their own marketplace. Kohl's have their own marketplace. Chemist's Warehouse have their own marketplace. And then obviously you have Amazon plus your own website. So we help with the back end of all of that as well. So if someone, again, has a real idea, doesn't have the logistics required to support such an idea, we can help them with the logistics as well.
whether we do it in-house or we just refer them to our logistics partner, whichever way, there's a lot of different avenues. And that's just in Australia. My background as well, or part of my background is Middle East. So I lived and worked in the Middle East, in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the UAE. So I have quite an extensive network there. I lived there for a good 15, 16 years. So I know a people. So one of the things when we started the business,
Heather Porter (11:44.587)
Yeah.
Ahmed (11:48.039)
our key focus was how can we add more value to our partner brands? So we call them our partner brands. How can we add more value to them? Okay. We're helping them with their back end. We are helping them with sales and marketing, getting them on shelves. What else can we do? How can we stay relevant as well as a business? Because we help them got you on the shelf and then what? How can I get more products of you on the shelf? How can I get you more shelves? How can I get you more shelves in Australia and overseas? So that's where we started focusing on, you know what?
I know the language, I know the people, I live there, let's go and start something there. And obviously now everyone is focusing on the Middle East, what's happening in Saudi and Dubai, et cetera. So we started doing some work there as well. We're exporting into Saudi Arabia, into Qatar, into the UAE, exploring a things now in other markets. And that becomes a nice extension, you because from a product's perspective, usually trends, they start in the US, in Europe, comes to Australia, we make them better, we make them cleaner, more natural.
and then goes to the Middle East and Asia. So it's a nice extension of what is working here quite well and how can we expand. Obviously on other ends, Australian dollar is quite low, which is alarming for a lot of people, but for export is perfect because now we can export easily. helps it. It becomes much more attractive.
Heather Porter (13:05.356)
I like how you said that Australia takes products and improves on them and makes them cleaner. That's actually really interesting. I've never thought of it like that, but that makes me happy.
Ahmed (13:13.832)
We do. If you look at the back of labels and obviously being in that space, everything like my wife hates shopping with me in supermarket because I'm the one who would be spending a lot of time in the aisles and looking at the products and turning them around. But I like looking at labels. And if you remember Heather, like he would we would be used to seeing lots of numbers and letters and things that does not make sense as an ingredient. We generally have the tendency of making things a lot simpler where you can look at the ingredients. I understand everything I'm reading.
Heather Porter (13:17.155)
Yeah.
Heather Porter (13:38.102)
yeah.
Ahmed (13:43.847)
It's like four or five ingredients that make sense. That's it. So we're very, very good in doing that. And that is our international reputation as Australia. So when we go to markets internationally and we participate in expos globally, what we see is that we have not been successful in creating famous, well-known Australian brands. If you go there and you ask them, they'll say, Tim Tam, maybe Vigimite, not for good reasons. It's very polarizing. But then, but
But the brand Australia itself is a very well recognized brand as healthy, as better for you, as natural, et cetera. So that's something we've done very well.
Heather Porter (14:17.323)
Okay.
Heather Porter (14:22.646)
Interesting. Thanks for sharing that with me. I want to turn to tips because I'm sure you have some ideas of if we're thinking about the future and what products you see that are going to sell really, really well. However you want to take this conversation, I'm okay with. But what do you think are some solid tips or ideas of the future of products that are going to succeed and be something that you can work with well as well?
Ahmed (14:37.978)
That's it.
Ahmed (14:47.749)
A couple of things and look first and foremost, at the end of it, we're always, well, end of the world consumers. Yes, we have a brand, we have a business, we're doing all of these different things, but I'm a consumer. I have a family, I have kids. So whenever a product is presented to me, or I think of something, I always ask, will I buy it as a consumer? And then, okay, I am my own demographics. Who else is there? Let's widen the demographics and see, all right, so we as a team at BFMCG, we're a nice diverse team.
And diversity is in genders, in ages, in backgrounds, is in families, all these different things. So anything that comes to us or we see, we sit down as a team and discuss, would we buy this as consumers? So let's get you to the first thing. Would you buy it? Would you actually give it to yourself, your family and your kids? But then the second one is, okay, what is the point of difference? Because there's a lot of me too's, a lot of, you know, like, so if you're going to be having another brand that is a me too, you're competing on price. What is your point of difference?
We like to be focusing on having something unique about the product itself, the attributes. Obviously it's hard to come up with an innovation that is completely out of the blue. There are some and we are working with a couple of them, but a lot of it will be, okay, how can I differentiate my product from what is already on the shelf? Because the shelf is crowded and the shelf space is limited. When you sit down with any of the buyers and say, look, I love it, but I already have that limitation on my space. So the two key things will be,
Would you, your family, your friends, would you buy it? And then the other one will be, uh, definitely what is the unique selling point. Last but not least, um, I tell people is whenever you go to any market, there's usually three teams. There is the two niches. You have the top niche and then you have the bottom and then you have the mainstream. Mainstream is where the volume is. And that's where we'd like to focus on. We don't want to go down where we're just competing on price because they started to deteriorate the quality. And you don't want to go top where you're focusing on the
Ultra, know, like high end, et cetera, where it's high value, but very low volume. We like the middle. The middle is nice. It's a good spot to be in and is where we like to help people.
Heather Porter (16:55.181)
Amazing. All right. I want to change gears a little bit. So you mentioned, I love the permanent scar in your memory of COVID and toilet rolls. When did you actually start your business? What year was it?
Ahmed (17:09.765)
So I started in 2020. So 2020, I thought that this was the end of COVID. And I thought, you know what, this is it. I'm going to be an early starter. So I'll start, know, as things were ending, start end of 2022. So 2021, you know what, COVID is finished. It's perfect timing. I'm already in the market established myself. I didn't realize there was second wave. So second wave came in, in early 2021 and that hit us.
Heather Porter (17:16.162)
Yeah.
Ahmed (17:37.624)
hard because that was a time where a lot of brand, a lot of retailers were not taking new products. The focus was on whatever they have existing to develop that. However, we are creative and resourceful and we have a lot of different skills that we were helping again from the manufacturing, from logistics, helping different brands from a consultancy level and help them with their existing channels. And the minute the restrictions were lifted, we were able to support them more. But yes, we started the business or I started the business at the end of 2022.
Sorry, at the of 2020 and then started to establish it more in 2021. And then in 2022, we started our export arm. And then just as the business is growing, are adding, bringing more, you know, team members that, you know, like, again, obviously trying to help us do the same thing, which is see beautiful brands on shelves in a good way, in a sustainable and scalable manner, as we say, but also adding value to the brand owners. What else do we need? So we're very keen on
growing the business and growing our services in a natural and organic way, where, you know what, it makes sense to add this extra person or this extra skill set or this extra service. One of the things we've realized sort of last year that we're doing great job in head offices where we sit down with the head office buyers, agree on certain deals for brands, et cetera, but we're not seeing that translated at a store level.
because at the of it, a store level, every store manager or store owner there, the king and queens of the kingdom, that's their kingdom. I get to decide what I put. Obviously some retailers have more compliance than others, they're just, so we realized, you know what? It will actually help the brands we work with to have our own merchandising team. So we went and we acquired the business that's in the merchandising services. So we now have our own people on the ground that goes to the stores, helps with the displays, helps with the reordering.
Heather Porter (19:01.752)
Okay.
Ahmed (19:29.45)
And we found that a beautiful fit and a beautiful service to add to the brands we work with. Yeah. So it's just, again, always looking at that quote unquote natural organic. How can we develop our services that are best aligned to the brands we work with that will add a lot of value to them and makes everyone's life a lot easier.
Heather Porter (19:33.57)
Wow.
Heather Porter (19:47.155)
I love it such a smart way to grow and it's going to lead me naturally into my next question. this show, we're the anti hustle culture and that is all around, you know, how do you grow your business, even more time for your family and your friends and what really matters in this short life that we have. so part of that, I already got one answer from you and I was going to ask you how have you been growing your business since you started it in a way that is
Ahmed (20:03.648)
Yes.
Heather Porter (20:13.494)
you know, sustainable for you and your life and your family. And that seems to be one solid answer. But what other tips and things have you come across in the last few years growing your business that keep you kind of sane and growing in a way that's sustainable?
Ahmed (20:28.993)
Look, this might not be the right answer or the best answer, but I guess it's a reflection of me. I'm not a good person in marketing. I don't market myself. I always like to have my work markets, you know, like myself, but I don't actually. So as a business, we don't market. We don't do any marketing. We don't do any, you're not going to see activities on social media or anything out there like, ah, BFG, we're doing one, two, three. No, we're just on the ground doing our work and.
99.9 % of our partner brands are either referrals or word of mouth. So, which is a very good way and a solid way. And again, also the fact that we not, we're not looking to have hundred brands to work with. We would like to have 15 to 20 brands that we give them our best non-competing businesses and focus on them. reading a lot of different sort of books and listening to podcasts and all these different things, like one of the good stories I like is the Virgin.
So Richard Branson, look at Virgin. Virgin, are not the biggest in any category that they're in, whether it's airlines, gyms, et cetera, but they're really focused that you go and you get the Virgin experience and it's a beautiful experience, whether it's the airlines or gym, et cetera. And that's what we're trying to do as well. We don't want to be the biggest, but we want to give the best service to the brands we work with. So everyone is enjoying it. Everyone is happy with what they're getting and we're focusing on giving them more. again, back to the point about growth.
is growing organically or all right, we need to this extra service, a referral from Heather or an idea from someone. And look, one of the things, and credit to yourself, was our website. Obviously, when you start the business, you're bootstrapping, you're starting from scratch. So whatever we can do to get a domain out there. But then obviously, as the business starts being more established, and again, the fact that we are not a company that markets ourselves, well, we need at least to have a nice...
a nice front, a nice banner, something that displays who we are quite nicely. And we're very privileged to meet with yourself and your team. I think we have a good website. We're getting a lot of referrals from the website. We're getting people who looking up, know, like FMCG services or consultancy services. And then they reach out to us. One of our very good brands we're working with right now came through that. So definitely website helps. So thank you.
Ahmed (22:47.518)
So if you're not going to be marketing yourself out there, definitely at least have a nice front, have a nice signage. So that's one thing we're doing. But yeah, the other way of growing as well is targeted growth. We know we want to be in certain expos, like food expo or something like that, whether in Australia or overseas. That's where we see opportunities and that's what we focus on. But yes.
Heather Porter (23:01.506)
Okay.
Heather Porter (23:12.248)
Very smart. And thank you for bringing that up because I was gonna ask, how do we know each other? So now people are like, how do you guys know each other? Yes, we built his amazing website when he was getting started. So thank you for sharing that.
I want to touch on a couple of things that you said and I've spoken to really fascinating, amazing business owners over the last two years since this podcast started. And there's definitely time and a place for marketing. And I'm glad that you said that because there are definitely people I speak to that do not market. And a lot of business experts say, need to market because you need to have that consistent, you know, flow of leads coming in that you can turn on and off. And a referral based business is not consistent for growth. And there's all this stuff around that, but.
I like what you said because I actually tend to disagree with that in the fact that you actually are coming full circle with my comment about community. If you genuinely care about your customers and they are part of your family as you suggested earlier, then they will talk about you and it actually is a growth plan, don't you think?
Ahmed (24:15.005)
Look, again, the best marketing will be someone coming to tell you, hey, by the way, I worked with so and so, they were great, I would recommend you use them. That helps 100 % instead of me trying to cold call or cold sell. Because look, we're in a time and age where people are smart enough to see how genuine or authentic this comment, this post, this advertisement or not.
Heather Porter (24:24.206)
Totally.
Ahmed (24:39.236)
And yes, marketing is important. Social media is important. People are using it. It's a way and a method for people to filter, to search, to find. But I like more that face-to-face or that interaction and that is personal, that, know what, I worked with these guys and we get referrals from different people. And again, you know, like most of our brands we have now, they're brands we've been working with for a while.
Heather Porter (25:03.927)
Yeah.
Ahmed (25:04.449)
Even the ones that we're no longer working with, for whatever reason, they still refer people to us and they come back to us. One of the businesses were doing great, had to stop for certain reasons. And then two years later they came back and, hey, by the way, we're back, we're up and running and we're work with you. People leave companies. One day you're working in a certain company and a few months, years, you move to another role in a different company and then they call us.
And that's what we're trying to build is trying to build this good reputation, these good connections. And we're genuinely here to help. We were not trying to take advantage of anyone. We don't believe in free work or free money as much as we would love to. But we don't believe in that. So we believe that of earning, earning, earning what we're doing. And that's only coming from good service. So, but again, we can definitely deal with a bit more marketing. We can talk about this one later on, with marketing. Yeah.
Heather Porter (25:57.945)
There are many paths to the, you know, the, success ultimately. And I think it really does depend on personality and how you grow. And, and yeah, you truly are the most genuine, loveliest guy and your team from what I've gathered as well. And I'm protective of who I introduced to my community too. So that's why when we connected on email again and I'm like, yes, you're perfect. Do you have to get your story out there? So,
Ahmed (26:12.3)
very good. Thank you.
Ahmed (26:21.671)
you are too kind, I appreciate it.
Heather Porter (26:26.188)
it's true. It's true. And honestly, what do people do if they want to work with you? Because you said you only obviously take one type of product in each area. What I guess somebody's listening to this and they're like, am I the right person? How do they get in contact and how do they know if they're the right person?
Ahmed (26:45.697)
Drop us a note, email, phone call. I love, look, I meet with everyone. Like, because again, it's a network that we're building and you never know where things will be. Sometimes it's the right fit, sometimes it's not. Sometimes we're not the right fit for them as well. But regardless of what happens, we will give genuine advice, free of charge, just saying genuinely, I want to see every brand succeed. And if a brand comes to us and we cannot represent them because of conflict of interest,
We will still sit down with them. We will listen. We will talk or give them advice. And we will apply to tell them, look, we cannot work with you for certain reasons. But at the end of it, and again, some brands come to us and even if they have the budget and everything is just simply, you're not ready or the product is not the right product or the timing is not right, whatever it is. So we were always, again, as I mentioned, I believe in genuine, natural, organic growth and partnerships.
and we're not pushing for a short-term benefit. We're focusing on the long-term. We're focusing on long-term partnerships, and that's what we want to do. anyone who wants to reach out to us, email, phone call, you know, ahmedatbefmcu.com is the email address. Give me a phone call. My number is on the website as well. And we'll always answer. We're always going to respond. And we will always make time to sit down with everyone, whether we can help them or not. At least they'll get our advice.
Heather Porter (28:08.278)
You do. Yeah, you genuinely do. So you guys listening and watching, if you really are thinking, is this me? Could I be the next big brand on the shop, on the shelves? Then yeah, definitely reach out. You you're going to feel if this is going to resonate with you, this conversation, if this is what you're meant to do. So you should reach out and say your website URL. Where do people go? What's your website?
Ahmed (28:30.424)
www.befmcg.com. Nice and simple or simple-ish.
Heather Porter (28:35.266)
There you go. Now since it is simple. And as we wrap up, is there any last words of wisdom or advice that you'd like to share with people that are tuning in?
Ahmed (28:47.126)
wisdom and advice makes me sound, you know, no, look, it's, it just do what you're passionate about. If the passion is aligned with what's in the market without being too personal, because what we see a lot of times is people become very attached to the brands and they're not willing to take on advice or constructive criticism. So what I say to people is follow your passion, but take advice from people who are professional. They know what they're doing. They're trying to genuinely guide you.
And then if you have that right match, you cannot do everything yourself. So find the right team members. There are certain things you can do in-house and other things you need to outsource or delegate. Find the right partners across that. A lot of brand owners think they can do manufacturing and sales and marketing at the same time. Complete different businesses, it is not that easy. Take it from experience. It's not that easy. And ideally, you need to delegate one of the two. So if you're really good about an idea on how to make a certain idea or managing your operations,
Focus on that. Outsource your sales and marketing with accountability, with KPIs, all the different details or the other way around. But just find your passion, find what you're good at and where you add value and partner with the right people for this.
Heather Porter (30:02.318)
What a good way to end our chat. Thank you so much for this conversation and sharing all of your advice. And yes, you have wisdom, you're too humble, but I love that about you. Thank you for being here.
Ahmed (30:08.786)
Smart decision.
Ahmed (30:13.685)
You're too kind Heather, appreciate it. Thank you. And again, one last thing, anyone who wants great website, great service, please Heather and your website is amazing. Thank you. I actually need to update something so I'll reach out to you separately.
Heather Porter (30:30.127)
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you.
